Zimbabwe XI to Play South Africa "A"

Mutombodzi is the new Chibhabha, or worse.

Career average of 12 in domestic T20's. How does he get anywhere even close to an A side?!?! Mayavo's selection is just as much of a joke.

Rajkumar post loading.... 😂

I know we are flattering them with our diabolical batting performances (it's a disgrace), but some of this bowling is very impressive. This SA team are significantly better than probably any team we will face in the qualifiers.

Credit to the ZC commentators for being quite honest and critical on comms. Chimbambo highlighting that he sees Shumba in the nets working specifically on his weakness all the time compared to older players (he namechecked Mutumbami) who avoid such things was very revealing. And quite promising for the youngsters.

We have to back Ervine (and Williams) - they deserve a longer rope than anyone else. Craig still has a career T20 record averaging 28.92 with a SR of 122.5, from a long career. They are better numbers than any of the alternatives. He's our captain too!

He's struggling badly right now but there's a very high likelihood that he will come good. He's a better player than anyone else in Zimbabwe bar Sean.

1 Ervine

2 Marumani

3 Chakabva

4 Williams

5 Raza

6 Shumba

7 Burl

8 Evans

9 Masakadza

10 Ngarava

11 Muzarabani

.....for the first Namibia game please.

(Although I think Williams is still unavailable, Muzarabani may or may not be back, and Masakadza and Ngarava both have injuries).

The above 11 is solid and pretty good, but as we've seen, the player pool beyond that is totally empty. Madhevere as 12th man, but beyond that there is virtually absolutely no one.

Good I had work and didn't follow the game afterwards, this was quite embarrassing. :cry:

We all agree that Zimbabwe have a lot to improve... Here and there they give some good performances which results in the odd win against bigger teams but overall teams needs to improve a lot.

Anyways all these were practice games, real business starts now in a weeks time, against Namibia.

SZ, mate South Africa will qualify directly, I don't see them Play the Qualifiers.

sam_ahm wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 3:20 pm

SZ, mate South Africa will qualify directly, I don't see them Play the Qualifiers.

I know haha. I mean this SA A side are very good. We will be facing much lower quality bowling in the qualifier - so maybe we shouldn't get too depressed......yet.

slcricfan1 wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 3:18 pm

Why marumani over madhevere?

Because I'm starting to run out of patience with Wes.

So, Wes is one of the most naturally gifted players we have. He has twice the natural ability that Shumba does. And yet, you watch Zimbabwe and it looks like Shumba is far better. Something major going wrong there. Wes has every shot in the book and heaps of talent. It's not an understatement to say he could be very special.

But unfortunately, he's already got his fancy haircut and he's bought a new car. He knows he's guaranteed a place in every squad in every format for the next ten years because there's literally nobody else. He's getting a great salary at a young age and nobody seems to care if he's actually underperforming. For his level of ability, he IS underperforming.

By all accounts you won't see him in the nets as much as some other guys. Shumba is there for hours each day apparently. Someone like Regis, we know he's one of the hardest grafters around. Is Wes? From what I've heard he's not.

He needs a rocket up his arse and needs to be dropped. If we keep accepting his underperformance and let him average 25 when really he has the talent to average 40, then he'll end up like all the countless other talented black players we've had over the years who settles for second best and are comfortable with doing the bare minimum to keep the cash rolling in.

He's young but this is when lessons are learnt. We can't hand these kids everything on a plate. This is the age where you have to drill in high expectations into these guys or else they'll end up as another Chibhabha, Maruma or Mutumbami - all btw, who were extremely promising as young men but wilted into insignificance due to our shite system, shite coaching, and our ready acceptance of mediocrity.

secretzimbo wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 3:45 pm

slcricfan1 wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 3:18 pm

Why marumani over madhevere?

Because I'm starting to run out of patience with Wes.

So, Wes is one of the most naturally gifted players we have. He has twice the natural ability that Shumba does. And yet, you watch Zimbabwe and it looks like Shumba is far better. Something major going wrong there. Wes has every shot in the book and heaps of talent. It's not an understatement to say he could be very special.

But unfortunately, he's already got his fancy haircut and he's bought a new car. He knows he's guaranteed a place in every squad in every format for the next ten years because there's literally nobody else. He's getting a great salary at a young age and nobody seems to care if he's actually underperforming. For his level of ability, he IS underperforming.

By all accounts you won't see him in the nets as much as some other guys. Shumba is there for hours each day apparently. Someone like Regis, we know he's one of the hardest grafters around. Is Wes? From what I've heard he's not.

He needs a rocket up his arse and needs to be dropped. If we keep accepting his underperformance and let him average 25 when really he has the talent to average 40, then he'll end up like all the countless other talented black players we've had over the years who settles for second best and are comfortable with doing the bare minimum to keep the cash rolling in.

He's young but this is when lessons are learnt. We can't hand these kids everything on a plate. This is the age where you have to drill in high expectations into these guys or else they'll end up as another Chibhabha, Maruma or Mutumbami - all btw, who were extremely promising as young men but wilted into insignificance due to our shite system, shite coaching, and our ready acceptance of mediocrity.

Remember Wessly dominated SA schools cricket. And did very well across three U19 WCs.

It's very possible that 2-3 years from now, a few schoolboys who Wes was consistently better than, will be playing for the Proteas performing well against top teams. Meanwhile Wes could be averaging 25 playing for 15th-ranked Zimbabwe against Nepal and Namibia.

secretzimbo wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 3:52 pm

secretzimbo wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 3:45 pm

slcricfan1 wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 3:18 pm

Why marumani over madhevere?

Because I'm starting to run out of patience with Wes.

So, Wes is one of the most naturally gifted players we have. He has twice the natural ability that Shumba does. And yet, you watch Zimbabwe and it looks like Shumba is far better. Something major going wrong there. Wes has every shot in the book and heaps of talent. It's not an understatement to say he could be very special.

But unfortunately, he's already got his fancy haircut and he's bought a new car. He knows he's guaranteed a place in every squad in every format for the next ten years because there's literally nobody else. He's getting a great salary at a young age and nobody seems to care if he's actually underperforming. For his level of ability, he IS underperforming.

By all accounts you won't see him in the nets as much as some other guys. Shumba is there for hours each day apparently. Someone like Regis, we know he's one of the hardest grafters around. Is Wes? From what I've heard he's not.

He needs a rocket up his arse and needs to be dropped. If we keep accepting his underperformance and let him average 25 when really he has the talent to average 40, then he'll end up like all the countless other talented black players we've had over the years who settles for second best and are comfortable with doing the bare minimum to keep the cash rolling in.

He's young but this is when lessons are learnt. We can't hand these kids everything on a plate. This is the age where you have to drill in high expectations into these guys or else they'll end up as another Chibhabha, Maruma or Mutumbami - all btw, who were extremely promising as young men but wilted into insignificance due to our shite system, shite coaching, and our ready acceptance of mediocrity.

Remember Wessly dominated SA schools cricket. And did very well across three U19 WCs.

It's very possible that 2-3 years from now, a few schoolboys who Wes was consistently better than, will be playing for the Proteas performing well against top teams. Meanwhile Wes could be averaging 25 playing for 15th-ranked Zimbabwe against Nepal and Namibia.

As others have pointed out, we are in the s**t and bereft of ideas currently because everyone that's come through in the last 10-12 years have been mostly rubbish. They were good schoolboys though, but have been f***ed hard up the backside by our incompetent administrators and coaches, lack of fixtures, poor domestic structure and general poor treatment amidst all the chaos. And low standards.

Our old boys are great and our youngsters have potential but there's a massive age gap where everyone within that is pretty average.

We now have a small bunch of promising youngsters that miraculously seem to be committed to ZC, and it's really important that we don't let them go to waste like we have previous generations.

We need;

- More domestic fixtures. Tick! We've played plenty this year. Let's keep it going and build on it next season.

- More international fixtures (including A series). Tick! At the moment anyway. The next 4-6 months looks busy. Let's ensure it continues.

- Proper coaching. We are miles away on this. We might as well have Rajkumar in charge. Rajput is beyond terrible and the franchises in particularly have poor coaches and a poor setup. We need better coaches throughout the professional system.

- High Standards!!!!!!

With the above things then Marumani, Shumba, Madhevere, Madande et al might be able to go on and have decent international careers and potentially even stop our continued slide into the abyss.

It's what I said about Shardendorf. On a par with Madhevere at U19's and is now leagues ahead. They practice and play against guys who bowl seriously tidy line and length and they rub shoulders daily with pro cricketers and they watch and learn and get given some sound advice. They don't get too much one on one time, you find a few guys have their own outside coaches for that. The better blokes can call the shots and get extra, but if you're trying to break through you have to make your own plans for extra.

If you have a couple of bad net sessions with some loose shots it often impacts your selection or batting spot for the next game, it's that competitive. In 4 day net practice if you go at a few balls at you don't middle them there's much rolling of eyes and exchanging of glances amongst the coaches, you practice your format and you don't mess around.

Our guys aren't even close to this level of professionalism.

I'm just saying in advance that if we play all our fixtures it's not going to look too good because we are going to get humped more often than not and all our problems will be front and centre for the cricketing world to see. They know already, but Covid and game dodging has saved us from the real blushes, but that's coming like a runaway train.

The big question will be what they're prepared to do about it. You can't make an international batsman out of a guy that just hasn't got the goods.

Shumba is a fine example of a guy with just enuf talent and what seems to be a really good head on his shoulders. I'm enjoying watching him.

Googly wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 4:20 pm

The big question will be what they're prepared to do about it.

I think the penny has dropped and they are panicking. ZC have put more effort into the past six months than they seemingly have into the past six years. It's still nowhere near enough though.

They seem to be focusing on the grassroots rather than high performance, which is handy for them because they can conceivably tell everyone at the next board elections that they have watered the grass at a club ground in some province somewhere, held a few school games, organised a scorers course, and club cricket is being played in more areas and that 'We are laying the foundations, the future will be bright in a few years' - and therefore justify another four years in the job looting the coffers. 😂

I'm fine with the grassroots approach in theory but this is Zimbabwe and there is no chance of that level of development and effort being sustained for the many years that will be required before we see any results.

The quicker fix would be investing in more good high performance coaches and support staff, implementing a professional and winning culture, and offering more national contracts or more financially viable franchise contracts in the hope it entices a few people back. But they seem to be going for the much more difficult and risky long-term approach.

Truth is we need both 😂

This is my personal soap box as you all know-

Grass roots is an absolute complete and utter waste of time, money and half baked personnel. It cannot work in Zim.

There is no interest in cricket here. We need a top down approach and not a bottom up one. With all the will and money in the world it would take a decade to bear fruit.

Nobody will show the slightest interest in cricket until our national side becomes competitive. Which kid is looking at our lot and thinking- I need to be like one of these guys? They're currently role models to not pick up a cricket bat and head directly to university or the job market. Any parent worth their salt will currently beat the snot out of their kids if they express an interest in playing "slave pro" cricket here. They don't have to win consistently, they just must compete fiercely and win a few games here and there. That is the only way that any kid in kamusha or high density will ever pick up a cricket bat. The proof is in the 200 strong crowd packed into HSC grounds this series. More people assemble at a car accident.

If we can't find another young Masakadza for the black kids to look up to and try and emulate then let's get going with some sharp young white lads that will get the competitive juices flowing and we'll soon find a young Masakadza or a young Matsikinyeri or Taibu. Let's face it, half the reason those guys put in the hard yards was to prove a point and get some of the action and they did well. A young Masakadza or Taibu in this environment would be nowhere. And as galling as it may be, they became the players they were by being in a half decent cricket environment dominated by white cricketers. The gauntlet was thrown down and it produced some really good cricketers. There's the elephant in the room right there. We need whites to be interested as well and they need a fair crack of the whip and half a hand on the steering wheel. That brings corporate participation, and a bunch of people that genuinely are interested in the game. Clearly this will never happen, that gravy boat is being clutched firmly to the bosom, but its worth mentioning because we're about to disappear into cricketing oblivion because of greed and maladministration.

The second piece of the jigsaw is that the national and franchise players need to be able to make a living, the good guys in the National side need to be paid decent bucks.

When the hierarchy are paying themselves 10-20 times what cricketers with families are getting who is going to want to dedicate years to practice? How do you become a good cricketer if you cant put food on the table? 😂

Admin should not receive more than a franchise player in remuneration. I'll get a team together that will do it for free, and well.

Focus on 6-8 high schools and maybe double the number of junior schools. Have age group cricket and tours to SA.

Start a world class Academy with quality facilities and coaches.

Encourage and allow white participation in cricket and admin, that war is over, we are now fighting for survival, not even pride, that's long gone.

Let's be honest- we've seen enough of Wes, Shumba, Mandande and whoever else the new lot are to emphatically know they will never replace Taylor and Williams. Well I have, anyone who disagrees can bookmark this and we can reconvene in a couple of years. You can see pretty soon who has a shot at being real quality. Wes and Shumba will be ok, not disputing that, but they're not BT or Williams.

I didn't agree with those commentators.

Reggie had the right plan with his "funky" shots.

A scoop and a reverse are not "funky" shots in T20 anymore, most good guys play them and play them well. Chasing 11 an over if you don't get off to a flyer in the first powerplay the game is over.

We were dead and buried by the 3rd over and the commentators only worked it out by the 8th.

Chakabva is so close to being a really good batsman. Just missing some mystery key ingredient by millimeters.

Googly wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 6:42 pm

Let's be honest- we've seen enough of Wes, Shumba, Mandande and whoever else the new lot are to emphatically know they will never replace Taylor and Williams.

To be fair, Williams was not that far ahead at this stage of his career. He only turned it on around age 30. And young WIlliams played mostly against Kenya, West Indies, and pre-competitive Bangladesh.

Now if you are talking about Williams at his current level, then yes I agree. I can't see any of the new generation being as good as Williams or Taylor. At best they can match Ervine or Raza, and even that is going to take a lot of improvement.

Googly wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 7:02 pm

Chakabva is so close to being a really good batsman. Just missing some mystery key ingredient by millimeters.

Batting down at 7 and 8 never helped his development. Only really progressed his powe game in the last couple of years which has made him a completely different player.