The future of the coaching staff

Zimco wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:22 am

I wouldnt be so sure no one has a British passport or Irish. Irish can be passed down and down if it was set up correctly.

Yes this is true and can go on forever if set up right, but how many Zimbabweans have Irish in them?

Of the white ones, you usually only see British names, a few Afrikaners, but rarely Irish.

I know there’s some. I don’t think it’s widespread though.

Zimco wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:22 am

I wouldnt be so sure no one has a British passport or Irish. Irish can be passed down and down if it was set up correctly.

The time for a lot of that has passed. You could comfortably get if you weren't born there if you were first generation. We're onto 2nd and 3rd now, that door has closed. Ireland might be slightly easier if you have any Irish ancestry, but I'm sure they're tightening up there as well.

Muyeye has the only fast track plan if you've got no ancestral entitlement , I'd hazard a guess that hundreds, if not thousands have tried his move without success.

Some folk I know got Brit passports because their grand father came out here from UK as a policeman on a ship many years ago. He was recruited in the UK, and they proved that and had to show evidence of him being on the passenger list of that specific ship. The Home Office periodically make these strange changes, clearly to benefit someone of consequence.

Googly wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:29 am

Zimco wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:22 am

I wouldnt be so sure no one has a British passport or Irish. Irish can be passed down and down if it was set up correctly.

The time for a lot of that has passed. You could comfortably get if you weren't born there if you were first generation. We're onto 2nd and 3rd now, that door has closed. Ireland might be slightly easier if you have any Irish ancestry, but I'm sure they're tightening up there as well.

Muyeye has the only fast track plan if you've got no ancestral entitlement , I'd hazard a guess that hundreds, if not thousands have tried his move without success.

In Ireland its a grandfather rule, which probably suits the Pj Moor generation as the last of the lot considering whites stopped coming 60 years ago.

However,

if youre inclined, you can create a heritage chain by registering your kids birth with the Irish authorities and if they do the same with their kids, they can create a chain forever. But if one parent isnt bothered then its broken.

Googly is right that the door is slowly closing with the passage of time and generations. A few of the boys still have passports though. I know Connor Mitchell has a full British passport for example.

And of course we will lose a few to university.

Theyre a talented family. The uncle- Paul Mitchell was a damned good cricketer and rugby player. You did not want to be tackled by him, it was like having a car accident and you'd probably get a left hook to rub it in 😂, he was fierce. Played England Schools cricket if I'm not mistaken. His son is now at Millfield where Paul was captain. Paul possibly should have played Zim cricket in a very good era, I think he got the thin end of the wedge.

sloandog wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:26 am

This is mainly aimed at googly and secretzimbo. What are these boys seriously like? The batting looks strong on paper. The Bennet boys are getting a lot of hype, Matty Welch sounds like he's as good as his brother was at his age and then Bawa we all know about. Throw in Saul and Wollhutter and it sounds like there's a bit of depth there.

Are they as talented as the last batch? The 2018 squad was alarmingly underwhelming after so much hype, yet the 2020 boys looked strong.

It's hard to make comparisons. These lads have missed out on 2 years of school cricket, not that the standard would have benefitted them greatly, but it would have certainly made a difference. The Bennets, Saul and Welch have been good since they were kids, but they have missed out on age group tours, school cricket, T20 festivals etc. I would doubt they put in the extra practice during that period either. Hard to do that on the off-chance that things return to normal, the incentive just wasn't there.

Bawa is quite a good yardstick. He looked good last WC and these guys are probably as good as him now. He played quite a bit of cricket in the UK so should theoretically be well ahead of them but I think they're all quite similar. We will see as this WC unfolds.

Mitchell is another- he went to SA and was quite a good bowler, he's obviously played quite a lot of cricket there and has come back as a handy batsman. It just shows that it's all about the general standard you're exposed to, and that's the insurmountable problem we have here.

If these good guys had been playing elsewhere there's no telling how good a couple of them might be now. Look at Gibbs- now been offered a Dolphins contract. He was damned good when he was at school here, but there were a couple of bowlers that edged him.

It's not too late though, they could catch up. But who will be better after 2 years of pro cricket- Gibbs and Matigumu playing in SA or our youngsters playing franchise here?

Nick Welch and Sam Curran probably had about 25 centuries apiece, maybe more, by the time they left school, and against much better opposition. Let that sink in for a minute, it's extraordinary. NW scored a club 100 against proper bowlers when he was only 14, played franchise when he was 15. Muyeye was probably better than both of them as a schoolboy. Only people that really know cricket understand how good these guys were at school. A few years go by and people forget what they were watching. Guys were excited about Madhevere at school, but these 3 were next level.

Batsmen develop at different rates though. Welch and Byrom haven't delivered on early promise, although Welch has been unlucky with bad injuries, its early days but Muyeye hasn't stormed it either

You get early starters that may not go on. KP wasn't even considered a batsman at school. Byrom looked good at school but didn't really deliver on his talent, but he's a serious player now. It's not a race, it's a journey. The hardest part is continuing that journey, especially in this country. Dog f**k and determination plays a massive part.

sloandog wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:26 am

This is mainly aimed at googly and secretzimbo. What are these boys seriously like? The batting looks strong on paper. The Bennet boys are getting a lot of hype, Matty Welch sounds like he's as good as his brother was at his age and then Bawa we all know about. Throw in Saul and Wollhutter and it sounds like there's a bit of depth there.

Are they as talented as the last batch? The 2018 squad was alarmingly underwhelming after so much hype, yet the 2020 boys looked strong.

Basically what Googly said.

It's really difficult for anyone to know tbh - not many people have seen any of these kids play for the last two years due to Covid. If you're asking anyone how talented any of the individual players are, we are probably basing it on watching them 2-3 years ago and a few CricHQ scorecards from last month. The kids that have been overseas have probably been able to keep playing unlike the Zim-based boys. Best example is Mitchell who was always good as a kid but now seems to have progressed into perhaps the star of this side. Bawa conversely looks to have declined in the UK which is weird. Evans and Muyeye went to the same UK school and did fantastic there so I'm not sure what has happened with him. He might just be in bad form and hopefully he turns on the style in the tournament proper. The Bennet's have been promising since a very young age, especially Brian. Matt Welch hasn't consistently lit up age groups to the extent Nick did. But hopefully he's a late bloomer.

Wolhuter was supposed to have a scholarship to go to school in the UK but I don't think he went in the end which is strange. Saul was another who looked really good when schools were playing a few years ago but now also looks bang out of form. None of the top order have been consistently impressive in these warm-ups or in the Select XI games in Harare unfortunately. Hopefully they find some form.

Consider in the last WC our top 6 was; Madhevere/Myers/Bawa/Shumba/Marumani/Schadendorf. And they only finished 11th. I don't think this years top 6 is anywhere near that level on paper. But, strange things happen in U19 tournaments so anything is possible. A few other countries may also have had similar disruption and lack of preparation so we may see some odd results.

I think the top 11 qualify for the next world cup so thats an obvious target. Anything less than that would be a big disappointment and our next batch would have to fight with Namibia and Uganda in qualifying which would be hard.

Zim in U19 WC's:

2020 - 11th

2018 - 11th

2016 - 10th

2014 - 11th

2012 - 15th

2010 - 13th

2008 - 14th

2006 - 8th

2004 - 5th

I think our bowling could be stronger this year compared to 2020. And as great as the 2020 batsmen were, there were also a few real weak links in the wider squad. I have a feeling this squad is a bit more equal and lacking in real weak links. So thats a plus. So far in the Ireland games our bowlers have looked really good - although I don't think we can read much into it because of the pitches.

Tl;dr - it's all a bit up in the air. They could surprise based on other teams being disrupted too. Anything can happen at U19 level but I wouldn't bet money on getting into the top 8. Let's hope.

secretzimbo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:39 am

Googly is right that the door is slowly closing with the passage of time and generations. A few of the boys still have passports though. I know Connor Mitchell has a full British passport for example.

And of course we will lose a few to university.

This is not the smartest group we have had academically which may put a few off trying the university route.

Thanks men. I've not seen any school cricket in Zimbabwe since 2009, and the standard back then looked seriously good. I've heard regression in standards has occurred.

I'm just thinking of the larger picture here to be honest.

The national side starting to build sold depth with the bat, though it would appear we have lost Myers for the time being. I don't consider Klong a long term option at the top and the jury is still out with Marumani. Therefore with that in mind, I think there's two, maybe three places in the SQUAD (not necessarily in the starting XI) for these lads to aim for.

Roche and Murray were prime examples of this. They were given a few ODI's after some good performances in the Under19's. Murray especially looked solid with the bat.

I just hope the selectors keep up with their policy of blooding these boys. Out of all the batters in the squad I'd like to see the bennet boys and Bawa in a T20 squad perhaps. Certainly the development sides.

The less we see of Maruma, Mutambami Chibahba and Co in these development sides the better.

Also wouldn't mind seeing young Erasmus in there. Heard he's got some pace

sloandog wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:43 am

Thanks men. I've not seen any school cricket in Zimbabwe since 2009, and the standard back then looked seriously good. I've heard regression in standards has occurred.

I would say the same, but looking at those very poor U19 results in 2008/2010/2012 is very eye-opening. We've done a bit better in recent years somehow.

We often bemoan the poor 'middle generation' in the national team, and I guess this just backs that up.

Zim in U19 WC's:

2020 - 11th

2018 - 11th

2016 - 10th

2014 - 11th

2012 - 15th

2010 - 13th

2008 - 14th

2006 - 8th

2004 - 5th

Obviously the participation numbers in school cricket have decreased significantly. We have fewer schools playing, worse facilities, fewer coaches and therefore a lot fewer young players. So the depth isn't there. But somehow we still seem to produce decent quality. It's just on a much smaller scale. When the top few schools do play each other the quality is still high. They just don't play often enough (and not at all since Covid) and we could do with a few more old cricket schools being brought back in to the game to add some depth and competition.

There's something in the water here honestly. It goes against all logic that we continue to produce such talented kids. If we had a half decent youth set-up, coaching and some stability and organisation, who knows what could be possible.

slcricfan1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:07 pm

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/form ... ch-1295561

Dont know if anyone posted this but yeah

Grant has now established himself as an international coach, and it's good to see him get good offers. ZCs obsession with Rajput is hard to understand but that is how it is. ZC won't change their coaching staff until 2023 WCQ for sure.

I might put a bottle of sparkling in the fridge ready for the news he's been fired.

It's not entirely his fault, sure. Numerous other things wrong with our cricket. But the guy is a disgrace. Get rid now.

Marshmallow wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 2:09 pm

No use i think. They going to say that they want continuity in coaching setup and used this series as a experimental series :( 😂

We've been having experimental series for 20 years 😂