Seeing as our spin attack is basically crap on a non spinning wicket. (As in non threatening and non containing) can we not pick tiripano chivanga blessing and ngarava.
Go for broke. A test is there to be won
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2nd Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare
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Donald wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 8:40 pm
Seeing as our spin attack is basically crap on a non spinning wicket. (As in non threatening and non containing) can we not pick tiripano chivanga blessing and ngarava.
Go for broke. A test is there to be won
Definitely some merit in this
Nyauchi seems to have fallen down the pecking order for some reason
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Kriterion_BD wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 8:29 pm
ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 7:55 pm
For the mere fact that there is only about 50 people in the world, if that, that is capable of beating the 145 barrier on a regular basis
Even in pace heavy Australia, I strongly doubt there will be more than 10 players who could do that. 4/5 of them are already in national rotation.
There's gotta be way more than 50 bowlers in the world capable of bowling around 140 for at least a spell.
Indian national team has at least 8-9 (Bumrah, Shami, Umesh, Saini, etc). Pakistan has a 3-4 in their national team, and a dozen more in their domestic circuits including some 150 kph bowlers. Even Bangladesh has 2-3 guys now.
Add in Australia and New Zealand. There are probably at least 100 bowlers in the world who can bowl 140 consistently.
140 bowlers will put you in the top quarter of quick bowlers.
145 I said,
It’s a huge jump between 140 and 145.
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I'm working at 9am. I hope I don't see Zimbabwe 10-3 at 8.45am 😂😂😂
It's very very possible
Bowl first and include chivanga
Zimbabwe Selectors were brave in the 20/20s and dropped K long after his moderate scores but low strike rate.
Chisoro or tiripano have to go.
Include chivanga ngarava and blessing.
Fire power is in the pace bowling I feel on a moderate to spicy wicket.
Need to win this match so go for broke.
Chivanga blessing and ngarava are the key.
Personally I would go with a 4 pronged pace unit. Shumba/Kaia and madhevere to bowl some spin as light relief for pacers and the odd burgled wicket 😂
It's very very possible
Bowl first and include chivanga
Zimbabwe Selectors were brave in the 20/20s and dropped K long after his moderate scores but low strike rate.
Chisoro or tiripano have to go.
Include chivanga ngarava and blessing.
Fire power is in the pace bowling I feel on a moderate to spicy wicket.
Need to win this match so go for broke.
Chivanga blessing and ngarava are the key.
Personally I would go with a 4 pronged pace unit. Shumba/Kaia and madhevere to bowl some spin as light relief for pacers and the odd burgled wicket 😂
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ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 10:13 pm
145 I said,
It’s a huge jump between 140 and 145.
Yeah thats true. Not many current internationals who can consistently clock 145+:
Afghanistan: none
Australia: Starc
Bangladesh: none
England: Wood
India: Bumrah
Ireland: none
New Zealand: Ferguson
Pakistan: Naseem
South Africa: Rabada
Sri Lanka: Kumara
West Indies: Gabriel
Zimbabwe: none
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There are more in aus.
- Meredith, Richardson, Cummins, starc, Hazelwood, stanlake, even one or two at grade level in my state. They can all bowl 145. Probably not all consistently but some could If they wanted to sacrifice control.
It is largely irrelevant if you are 140 or 145, look at stanlake or starc- Cummins and Hazelwood are better.
To the consistent 145 I'd add Archer, Scott Kuggeleijn they can do it in short form.
- Meredith, Richardson, Cummins, starc, Hazelwood, stanlake, even one or two at grade level in my state. They can all bowl 145. Probably not all consistently but some could If they wanted to sacrifice control.
It is largely irrelevant if you are 140 or 145, look at stanlake or starc- Cummins and Hazelwood are better.
To the consistent 145 I'd add Archer, Scott Kuggeleijn they can do it in short form.
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Zimco wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 12:49 am
There are more in aus.
- Meredith, Richardson, Cummins, starc, Hazelwood, stanlake, even one or two at grade level in my state. They can all bowl 145. Probably not all consistently but some could If they wanted to sacrifice control.
It is largely irrelevant if you are 140 or 145, look at stanlake or starc- Cummins and Hazelwood are better.
To the consistent 145 I'd add Archer, Scott Kuggeleijn they can do it in short form.
Forgot about Archer. Hazelwood gets up to the low 140s, but he's more of a 137-138 bowler.
The other thing is how one defines "consistently hits 145". Does that mean an average speed of 145 (in which case no one currently bowls at that pace), or does it mean a guy who can hit 145 at least 3-4 times in a spell? I would opt for the latter definition, which would be a lot more inclusive as well.
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ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 6:00 pm
Rajkumar Sharma wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 3:40 am
Saw Tanaka Chivanga talking with coach Rajput. Is he making debut in 2nd test ? Guy is tall and muscular build, from his physique it looks he can bowl with some raw pace..
I’m really sick of pointing out how dumb this logic is
I guess all the NBA players are all naturally 145km hr fast bowlers.
And blessing is the second fastest bowler in the world after the Pakistani dude
Talked about ability not a confirmation. Tall guys are generally fast as they know how to use their height, action and crease while bowling, weather it be Joel Gurner in past, Steve Harmision, Mohammed Irfan, Ishant Sharma, Steve Finn, all use to hit 140-145 consistently, however few exception are there like Jason Holder, Kyle Jammiesen who are fast on occassion not consistent.
Blessing before his county stinct was hitting 140s not consistent but on few occassion, even his bouncers created problems for Pak batters in that tour of 2018 after county stinct he has put more focus on seam & swing then pace, which generally happens when bowlers play in English County, Mohammed Abbas, quality Pak new commer bowler lost enormous amount of pace after playing county and now he even lost his place in Pak team. Coaches have huge impact to improve pace of any fast bowlers. Carl Mumba was impressive with pace when he was working under Streak, but now he is no where in the mix, in recent Bangladesh tour it looked he has lost that pacy bite that made him play for Zim.
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Kriterion_BD wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 10:41 pm
ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 10:13 pm
145 I said,
It’s a huge jump between 140 and 145.
Yeah thats true. Not many current internationals who can consistently clock 145+:
Afghanistan: none
Australia: Starc
Bangladesh: none
England: Wood
India: Bumrah
Ireland: none
New Zealand: Ferguson
Pakistan: Naseem
South Africa: Rabada
Sri Lanka: Kumara
West Indies: Gabriel
Zimbabwe: none
India has many more who can bowl 145+ consistently. Shami, Prasidh Krishna, Saini, Siraj. Siraj was not there but after Aus tour he is now at differant level, bowling at 145+ consistently in recently held IPL in flat tracks of Chennai & Mumbai. In domestic there is Mavi, Nagarkoti, Varun Aaron, Rajput. Shami is the world best bowler when it comes to old bowl because of his pace.
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Crazy to think 10 years ago we had Vitori, Chatara and Jarvis all clearing 140. How different things could have been. We have some of the worst luck
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In our last 6 test innings as a bowling side we have conceded 1589 at 3.3 rpo
As a batting side we have scored 1229 at 2.8 rpo
Not a hugely significant rpo difference, but what the stats don't tell you is that we have batted 1 more innings than the opposition and have still underscored.
I can't get on board with everyone saying that this is our 2nd strength squad so its fine. That to me is accepting mediocrity and poor performance. India beat Australia in Australia with a 3rd string side after having been bowled out for 36, chasing a target no one expected them to chase at the Gabba facing some of the most hostile and lethal bowling I've seen.
We on the other hand are sitting here going, "We expect to lose this, so it's fine". How the heck can we expect to get better with this mentality. Teams will look at this and go, "no point playing them if it won't be competitive enough". What this test series has shown is a glimpse in to the future and we should be upset about it.
Our players have been getting injured all series, which suggests to me that our fitness and conditioning is way off.
Our bowlers struggle to take wickets or find breakthroughs when it gets tough, which suggests to me that we have no clue as a fielding side.
Our batters are struggling on flat tracks, which tells me they do not have the mentality nor the skill to do the job.
So do we just sit here and be like, "it's a learning experience it will be fine" and then when the next series comes around we get trounced again. We struggled against Afghanistan with a strong side, so how can anyone expect that if we had a full strength side here that the outcome would not have been the same. We might have had Sean to bowl, but the bulk of our bowling is coming from the pace bowlers who are playing right now, and a lot of our batting is the same as what is currently there. These are moments where players can step up, and none of them have done that, yet everyone here is ok with it.
As a batting side we have scored 1229 at 2.8 rpo
Not a hugely significant rpo difference, but what the stats don't tell you is that we have batted 1 more innings than the opposition and have still underscored.
I can't get on board with everyone saying that this is our 2nd strength squad so its fine. That to me is accepting mediocrity and poor performance. India beat Australia in Australia with a 3rd string side after having been bowled out for 36, chasing a target no one expected them to chase at the Gabba facing some of the most hostile and lethal bowling I've seen.
We on the other hand are sitting here going, "We expect to lose this, so it's fine". How the heck can we expect to get better with this mentality. Teams will look at this and go, "no point playing them if it won't be competitive enough". What this test series has shown is a glimpse in to the future and we should be upset about it.
Our players have been getting injured all series, which suggests to me that our fitness and conditioning is way off.
Our bowlers struggle to take wickets or find breakthroughs when it gets tough, which suggests to me that we have no clue as a fielding side.
Our batters are struggling on flat tracks, which tells me they do not have the mentality nor the skill to do the job.
So do we just sit here and be like, "it's a learning experience it will be fine" and then when the next series comes around we get trounced again. We struggled against Afghanistan with a strong side, so how can anyone expect that if we had a full strength side here that the outcome would not have been the same. We might have had Sean to bowl, but the bulk of our bowling is coming from the pace bowlers who are playing right now, and a lot of our batting is the same as what is currently there. These are moments where players can step up, and none of them have done that, yet everyone here is ok with it.
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We shouldn't be judging this side in these circumstances. Its really sad to see some of our younger players being brought into test cricket in these conditions.
BT is taking the burden here which is unfortunate in an extremely weak team.
Inexperience really cosy us today. 341/7 and we have them declaring over 500. This is where we suffer. No killer instinct with the ball. The desire is there but no ability.
We need an xfactor bowler. We miss Burls leg breaks when they are 7 down.
I think the real test for us will come next series. If we are full strength I reckon we have a chance.
BT is taking the burden here which is unfortunate in an extremely weak team.
Inexperience really cosy us today. 341/7 and we have them declaring over 500. This is where we suffer. No killer instinct with the ball. The desire is there but no ability.
We need an xfactor bowler. We miss Burls leg breaks when they are 7 down.
I think the real test for us will come next series. If we are full strength I reckon we have a chance.
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zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 11:53 pm
I can't get on board with everyone saying that this is our 2nd strength squad so its fine. That to me is accepting mediocrity and poor performance. India beat Australia in Australia with a 3rd string side after having been bowled out for 36, chasing a target no one expected them to chase at the Gabba facing some of the most hostile and lethal bowling I've seen.
Are you comparing us to India now? Lol okay
We on the other hand are sitting here going, "We expect to lose this, so it's fine". How the heck can we expect to get better with this mentality. Teams will look at this and go, "no point playing them if it won't be competitive enough". What this test series has shown is a glimpse in to the future and we should be upset about it.
Just being realistic. We do expect to lose it. Find me a single person who would bet serious money on us winning before this match started?
I don't think it's crazy to say Pakistan are a million miles ahead of us in every single aspect of cricket. A significantly bigger country with significantly more cricketers, with significantly more funding with a significantly better cricketing history and a significantly better domestic cricket scene with significantly better coaching and significantly better administration and significantly more fixtures and a significantly better ranking with significantly better players.
Of course expect to lose. And thats with our first choice XI. We are out here playing with 7 batsmen missing, our captain missing, and a very odd bowling selection. Be fair to the guys.
If you're expecting us to whack Pakistan in a Test match/series you're deluded. Let alone with an A side.
Realistically, What we SHOULD expect is a decent fighting performance and 1 or 2 guys to make a name for themselves. That is where I am disappointed. That is where I am upset with the performance so far. People haven't grabbed their opportunities and there is little sign of players improving under the current coaches.
Our players have been getting injured all series, which suggests to me that our fitness and conditioning is way off.
Agreed. What are the coaching staff doing to earn their salaries? This is frustrating.
So do we just sit here and be like, "it's a learning experience it will be fine" and then when the next series comes around we get trounced again. We struggled against Afghanistan with a strong side, so how can anyone expect that if we had a full strength side here that the outcome would not have been the same. We might have had Sean to bowl, but the bulk of our bowling is coming from the pace bowlers who are playing right now, and a lot of our batting is the same as what is currently there. These are moments where players can step up, and none of them have done that, yet everyone here is ok with it.
Nobody here is okay with it. I think universally we are disappointed. I'm upset by the performance. I would have liked to see a bit of fight. I would have expected us to at least be a little bit more competitive than this.
But of this XI, I think only 4 get into my current first choice Zim XI, and two of them are aged 20. We will see wholesale changes for Bangladesh. A full strength Zim beats Bangladesh at home next month, I'm confident. Now THAT is a match up we should expect to win. THAT is something I would bet money on.
We have no bench strength but is that really a surprise considering how few players we have, how small our cricketing community is and how few fixtures both domestic and international we have?
If a full strength Zim team loses to Bangladesh next month then I'll be agreeing with you 1000% and I'll be the first to despair and complain.
But let's be honest; this Pakistan side is f***ing good, and we are heavily depleted by batting injuries and bizarre bowling selections.
No one is happy with losing, and we'd all change 1,000 things at ZC and we all wish things could be better. But let's not over react.
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Remove 7 injured players including the captain from Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Ireland, Sri Lanka or even the Windies and they'd all be getting spanked just the same if not more by this Pakistan side.
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secretzimbo wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 12:36 am
Are you comparing us to India now? Lol okay
No. Just illustrating that the idea that a 2nd or 3rd string side is not expected to win.
secretzimbo wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 12:36 am
Just being realistic. We do expect to lose it. Find me a single person who would bet serious money on us winning before this match started?
I don't think it's crazy to say Pakistan are a million miles ahead of us in every single aspect of cricket. A significantly bigger country with significantly more cricketers, with significantly more funding with a significantly better cricketing history and a significantly better domestic cricket scene with significantly better coaching and significantly better administration and significantly more fixtures and a significantly better ranking with significantly better players.
Of course expect to lose. And thats with our first choice XI. We are out here playing with 7 batsmen missing, our captain missing, and a very odd bowling selection. Be fair to the guys.
If you're expecting us to whack Pakistan in a Test match/series you're deluded. Let alone with an A side.
Realistically, What we SHOULD expect is a decent fighting performance and 1 or 2 guys to make a name for themselves. That is where I am disappointed. That is where I am upset with the performance so far. People haven't grabbed their opportunities and there is little sign of players improving under the current coaches.
7 Batsmen would be our whole line up and so that is not true. Prince, Kasuza, Tari, BT and Regis would all be first teamers in the test set up. I don't expect us to whack Pakistan, but I expect far better fight and competitiveness than what we are seeing. The point I am making is that this is not just a Pakistan thing. This kind of performance was evident against Afghanistan too and we had Sean and Craig, and Ryan and Wes, so it's not as if this is a one off. That we can play badly against a side like Afghanistan goes to show that this kind of performance against Pakistan will be a regular occurrence, even with a full strength side.
secretzimbo wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 12:36 am
Agreed. What are the coaching staff doing to earn their salaries? This is frustrating.
We agree on one thing. The whole coaching staff need a sacking. We never had this many injuries when Sean Bell was the fitness coach.
secretzimbo wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 12:36 am
Nobody here is okay with it. I think universally we are disappointed. I'm upset by the performance. I would have liked to see a bit of fight. I would have expected us to at least be a little bit more competitive than this.
But of this XI, I think only 4 get into my current first choice Zim XI, and two of them are aged 20. We will see wholesale changes for Bangladesh. A full strength Zim beats Bangladesh at home next month, I'm confident. Now THAT is a match up we should expect to win. THAT is something I would bet money on.
We have no bench strength but is that really a surprise considering how few players we have, how small our cricketing community is and how few fixtures both domestic and international we have?
If a full strength Zim team loses to Bangladesh next month then I'll be agreeing with you 1000% and I'll be the first to despair and complain.
But let's be honest; this Pakistan side is f***ing good, and we are heavily depleted by batting injuries and bizarre bowling selections.
No one is happy with losing, and we'd all change 1,000 things at ZC and we all wish things could be better. But let's not over react.
Your 1st XI and the ZC 1st XI are different. Of the current lineup, 8 get in to the ZC first XI.
A match up we should have expected to win was Afghanistan, but we didn't. It is a surprise the lack of our bench strength. It's not like we only have 22 cricketers in the whole country. We have more than that and we have about 4 academies too.
Let's not kid ourselves. This is not bizarre bowling selections. Blessing and Donald were picked in Afghanistan. They were always at the front of the queue for this series. Jongwe got himself in based on the T20 series (especially with all the hype around him) and Ngarava pushed ahead after all the hype for him against Afghanistan and the T20 series.
I am not over reacting. I am simply saying that this result is a result of progression. We should not kid ourselves and say that this is only happening because its our 2nd strength side. This is happening because we allowed it to happen and even with a 1st strength side, we would still be getting this hiding.
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secretzimbo wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 12:38 am
Remove 7 injured players including the captain from Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Ireland, Sri Lanka or even the Windies and they'd all be getting spanked just the same if not more by this Pakistan side.
But this statement is what could have been said for the India side...soo....
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Zimco wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 5:29 pm
Also musakandas lbw decision was really bad. The umpire got pressured to give it out.
It was so ridiculous that that setup actually worked. Tabish bowls 5 outswingers for dots so of course he is going to attempt an inswinger for his final delivery. That final delivery was full and on the legs and yes, probably missing leg stump, but Musakanda should have easily flicked that for 4.
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Mr Twig wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 2:50 am
Zimco wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 5:29 pm
Also musakandas lbw decision was really bad. The umpire got pressured to give it out.
It was so ridiculous that that setup actually worked. Tabish bowls 5 outswingers for dots so of course he is going to attempt an inswinger for his final delivery. That final delivery was full and on the legs and yes, probably missing leg stump, but Musakanda should have easily flicked that for 4.
This umpire has no experience you can tell he is under pressure to give LBW TO the Pakis, they are always screaming and appealing everything. I will say this again and will say again the Umpiring standards have gone to the dogs.
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zimlover wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 3:02 am
This umpire has no experience you can tell he is under pressure to give LBW TO the Pakis, they are always screaming and appealing everything. I will say this again and will say again the Umpiring standards have gone to the dogs.
And we should be doing the same thing. Scream at any half chance, particularly with Rusere.
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2nd string or 3rd string side not an excuse, present Zimbabwe players lacks talent of international cricket. It is such thing which can't be developed even by bringing top coaches, its naturally born, these group has high percentage of beats & pieces cricketers whose inconsistent performances doesn't adds value to the team.
Zimbabwe has no answer after Taylor, Ervine, Williams, Raza, Jarvis goes away.ZC lacks innovation and no talent search programme. There is no intention of bringing new concepts.Hamilton Masakadza is board's yes man, in his one year tenure haven't seen any good steps taken, neither we expect from him in nature future.Afghanistan have no chance of playing in home neither they are rich board but still there is good sort of concepts and ideas for their team, same goes with Ireland. ZC might have to declare status to be taken away as it can't continue getting defeated after the senior leaves the game.
Zimbabwe has no answer after Taylor, Ervine, Williams, Raza, Jarvis goes away.ZC lacks innovation and no talent search programme. There is no intention of bringing new concepts.Hamilton Masakadza is board's yes man, in his one year tenure haven't seen any good steps taken, neither we expect from him in nature future.Afghanistan have no chance of playing in home neither they are rich board but still there is good sort of concepts and ideas for their team, same goes with Ireland. ZC might have to declare status to be taken away as it can't continue getting defeated after the senior leaves the game.
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