1st Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

Still think Shumba should open. Prince just doesn't cut it for me, at all

Haven’t we learnt that the part time spinners are only dangerous on pitches that offer lots of turn? On flat or slow decks that don’t offer them the assistance they aren’t as effective and worse they go for lots of runs.

Raza & Burl are the best part timers Zim have and they’re both injured, going in with Williams & Kaia would be a disaster. Chisoro got through lots of overs & kept it relatively tight at least so the seamers could bowl around him.

As for the batting there really aren’t many other options at the moment so Tari to open & Williams into the middle seems the only change. I’m surprised Sloan thinks Shumba should open in Tests! For me he’s a middle order guy perfect for 5 or 6. But Sloan has played a life time of cricket & I’ve never lifted a bat, so maybe he knows more than me 🙃

Zimco wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 11:53 am

jaybro wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 11:50 am

Haven’t we learnt that the part time spinners are only dangerous on pitches that offer lots of turn? On flat or slow decks that don’t offer them the assistance they aren’t as effective and worse they go for lots of runs.

Raza & Burl are the best part timers Zim have and they’re both injured, going in with Williams & Kaia would be a disaster. Chisoro got through lots of overs & kept it relatively tight at least so the seamers could bowl around him.

As for the batting there really aren’t many other options at the moment so Tari to open & Williams into the middle seems the only change. I’m surprised Sloan thinks Shumba should open in Tests! For me he’s a middle order guy perfect for 5 or 6. But Sloan has played a life time of cricket & I’ve never lifted a bat, so maybe he knows more than me 🙃

Playing Williams, Wes, Shumba and Roy would give enough spin? Williams has bowled plenty of spin before. Then you attack with the three pacers.

Look back at the tests Zimbabwe have played recently, on the good batting decks the part timers have all struggled apart from Raza’s 7 for against Sri Lanka.

The last test v Afghanistan was a perfect example, the spin combo of Raza, Williams, Burl & Wes (which is better than Kaia, Williams, Shumba & Wes) got tonked by Afghar Afghan & Hashmatullah, same thing happened against BD last two tests we played there where Mushy got 200 in both matches.

If the deck offers lots of assistance to the spinners then yeah you can go in with the part timers, but if not you need someone like Chisoro to at least keep one end tight.

jaybro wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 11:50 am

As for the batting there really aren’t many other options at the moment so Tari to open & Williams into the middle seems the only change. I’m surprised Sloan thinks Shumba should open in Tests! For me he’s a middle order guy perfect for 5 or 6. But Sloan has played a life time of cricket & I’ve never lifted a bat, so maybe he knows more than me 🙃

From everything I've seen of Shumba over the years, he definitely has the ability and technique to open. I'm certain he will one day, especially in this format. I suppose the idea at the moment though is to let him find his feet and get experience further down the order before promoting him.

I think when we have our full middle order back (Ervine, BT, Sean, Raza, Burl) to fall back on, then we could see Wes & Shumba opening together.

I just don't want to see Kevin & Prince near a squad again... :x

Prince isn't good enough, really it's that simple

Bulawayo Boy wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 12:20 am

That was dire. Sad to watch. It is true we had injuries and we've always struggled at home vs Pakistan, but oi.

Were 3 debuts in one match a smart move? I know about the injuries but it just seems like a helluva risk.

Many, many years ago Andy Flower gave an interview to SA Cricket Action magazine stating that he believed that the best way forward for Zimbabwe was to bring in players extremely young and blood them. This would allow them to play against the very best from very young and improve, in the end granting them greater experience than their contemporaries. I wish I still had the article. (Note: he actually brought Taibu in at what...15, as his 'apprentice' - and what a good player he could have been without our bull dust politics!

I think the challenges are, still:

1. Not enough tests or international cricket being played in general. Alistair Campbell gave an extensive interview a while back on why we couldn't play more. Basically, it's too expensive. Couldn't we play more 'unofficial' tests vs Namibia, SA A, India A, maybe Ireland, Holland? If they aren't official we can use cheaper balls, not televise them, not pay for 5 star hotels, etc. But the guys would play more cricket. A lot more. Hell, aim for a series every month! What about Zimbabwe A vs Zimbabwe games to give them more middle time?

2. Club / franchise cricket / lower level cricket - is it me or are standards lower now? More coaching support is needed from ZC.

3. In my view (sorry Googly) - cricket is still not being played widely enough in Zimbabwe. I truly believe that if you become a teacher in Zimbabwe you should be required to hold coaching certs in soccer and one other sport - with cricket the preferred option. But it could include netball, athletics, etc. That would mean within a generation cricket knowledge would exist is every single school in the land - and we know how obsessed Zimbos are with regards to going to sodding school! Catch em young!

4. Make cricket the mandatory summer sport in all boys schools countrywide. Equipment will be a problem but the Indians all play tape ball cricket. Why can't we?

5. Why do our batsmen move around the batting card so much? Can't the coaching team decide a batsman's career position, train him to play there, and then play him there? Chopping and changing breeds uncertainty.

6. Our board. Oi. What the hell are they up to? Like seriously. I'm not being sarcastic. What are they doing?

7. What's going on with our physical conditioning? We seem unfit. Surely this should be priority? If we can't afford more trainers make the lads train with the army, preferably the paratroopers. Talk to Mazaiwana and BEG him to help. Select the best 30 cricketers as a 'platoon' and send them to Andre Rabie barracks to be conditioned. They'll put them through the mill, and they'll feel like s**t, but you'll have ultrafit fellas at the end.

8. Mental conditioning. Dear Lord. Cricket is 90 percent mental. If we refuse to focus on this we'll never improve. Can't this be looked at?

The stick ball cricket amongst the povvo requires a HUGE cricketing culture.

I think Googly is sort of right in saying the beet investment should be in the rich and middle class. The middle class can extend geographically.

The big issue is getting quality competition.

I’d invite a bunch of quality foreigners, 3 per team to play a 4 team domestic competition.

That in turn will push quality downward to club.

Having someone like Nyathi and moofu down in the club scene will do wonders for it.

ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 6:00 pm

I’d invite a bunch of quality foreigners, 3 per team to play a 4 team domestic competition.

That in turn will push quality downward to club.

I think it was a really good start to see people like Curran, Welch and Snater coming for the Logan this year. Obviously curtailed by Covid etc. But I'm hoping it becomes an annual tradition that all the England based Zimbos come over and play here in their winter. Would improve the quality massively. Especially now that we have 5 franchises again. Surely a win-win for Zimbabwe, the players and their counties.

On the subject of club cricket (below the franchises), it's such a bad state at the moment. Outside of Harare it's proper s**t. Hopefully the new NPL expands and we can one day go back to the days of having 3 or 4 divisions of national leagues which are highly competitive like we had 20 years back. We can dream!

Oh and on the subject of investing in 'poor' or middle/upper class communities etc. It depends what we want and what ZC wants. Invest in richer communities and schools for short and medium term success. Invest more broadly and in poor areas for longer-term success.

jaybro wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 11:50 am

Haven’t we learnt that the part time spinners are only dangerous on pitches that offer lots of turn? On flat or slow decks that don’t offer them the assistance they aren’t as effective and worse they go for lots of runs.

Raza & Burl are the best part timers Zim have and they’re both injured, going in with Williams & Kaia would be a disaster. Chisoro got through lots of overs & kept it relatively tight at least so the seamers could bowl around him.

As for the batting there really aren’t many other options at the moment so Tari to open & Williams into the middle seems the only change. I’m surprised Sloan thinks Shumba should open in Tests! For me he’s a middle order guy perfect for 5 or 6. But Sloan has played a life time of cricket & I’ve never lifted a bat, so maybe he knows more than me 🙃

Didn’t you play lower grade at south Sydney or somewhere in that vicinity?

ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 10:27 am

Didn’t you play lower grade at south Sydney or somewhere in that vicinity?

No no definitely not, born and bred in Penrith & only ever played Rugby League & Union. I’ve probably watched more cricket than anyone I know but apart from a couple of fill in games of indoor cricket I’ve never played.

Zimco wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 12:35 pm

TapsC2 wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 9:55 am

Interestingly enough I just read an interview where BT backed Stuey and said the batsmen are not applying themselves after all the hard work Stuey puts in with them. They didn’t even ask him about Matsikenyeri. He brought it up himself . Hondo for me is the most questionable

https://www.herald.co.zw/taylor-rues-po ... st-defeat/

I hope Taylor is including himself in 'the batsmen'

Hopefully