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1st Test | Zimbabwe V/s Pakistan | Harare

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Legend

Opening post

Zimbabwe Test squad:

Sean Williams (captain), Regis Chakabva, Tendai Chisoro, Tanaka Chivanga, Luke Jongwe, Roy Kaia, Kevin Kasuza, Wellington Masakadza, Prince Masvaure, Tarisai Musakanda, Blessing Muzarabani, Richard Ngarava, Victor Nyauchi, Milton Shumba, Brendan Taylor, Donald Tiripano.

Pakistan Test squad:

Babar Azam (C), Mohammad Rizwan (vc), Abdullah Shafique, Abid Ali, Azhar Ali, Faheem Ashraf, Fawad Alam, Haris Rauf, Hasan Ali, Imran Butt, Mohammad Nawaz, Nauman Ali, Sajid Khan, Salman Ali Agha, Sarfaraz Ahmed, Saud Shakeel (subject to fitness), Shaheen Shah Afridi, Shahnawaz Dahani, Tabish Khan and Zahid Mahmood
Legend
I will put it this way. 5 years from now you will all be talking about Myers because when he settles you will all be amazed but that Madhevere grit and determination is also priceless
ZCF Hall of Famer

ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 3:08 pm


secretzimbo wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 12:45 pm

f**k. This is extremely poor. To be expected though, considering we are missing 5 players through injury; Ervine, Williams, Raza, Burl & Wes.

Let's remember this is arguably a B team. Let's not panic.


I see it slightly more pessimistic.

This is a glimpse 3 years into the future when those guys are done.

Only Wes has the ability to grow but I don’t

Think he has as amazing an ability as some people make out.


Yeah I know what you mean. But I think there are reasons to be optimistic;

- I'll disagree with you on Wes. I think he is a true generational talent.

- Shumba is a classy player. He has the potentially to be easily better than any of our current openers; Masvaure, Kasuza, Chari, Chamu etc. He'll be much better than any of the guys we've had at the top for the last 10 years.

- People rate Myers very highly.

- I don't know if Marumani can develop a red-ball game, but he'll be gun in white ball cricket.

- Bawa is better than them all.

- Burl will be at the peak of his career in a couple of years.

- Jongwe & Kaia are positive additions to the national squad.

- Musakanda just needs a bloody good coach to sort out a few small issues.

- Blessing & Ngarava are the genuine pace bowlers we've all been crying out for for years.

- People in the system rate Chivanga really highly. I dont know personally, but a Blessing/Ngarava/Chivanga trio sounds exciting.

- We might see one or two players come back once the big 4 retire and there are paths into the team; maybe Welch, Higgins, Murray, B Curran, Snater? Who knows.

- I've heard that Ewing is on record as saying he believes the next U19 batch is just as good as the last one.

The reasons to be pessimistic are ZC of course. They'll find a way to f**k it up sooner or later. All the above is reliant on good management, good selection, good coaching and a stable environment. When pigs fly, etc etc.
ZCF Hall of Famer

TapsC2 wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 3:41 pm

I will put it this way. 5 years from now you will all be talking about Myers because when he settles you will all be amazed but that Madhevere grit and determination is also priceless


He's going to uni later this year apparently. I'm not sure where. :(
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer

TapsC2 wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 3:36 pm

People might kill me for this but the truth is Williams> BT. He just wants it more. Don’t forget Williams never ever got the BT bucks. He had disciplinary issues and they dropped him but here he is giving 150% every single time. Talent is only part of the equation


200% agree on recent form.

Overall BT just beats SW by a bit. Can't discount Taylor carrying ZIM during the dark wilderness years. Williams though has developed his game like few Zim batters have. He was a genuine 25 average batsman as recently as 2015 (in quality not necessarily his actual stats) but now hes a legit 40 average batter - in both formats.

I wonder if Taylor is on decline now - Willy, Ervine, Raza all look like guys who are fit enough to play till 40 but BT has always been hefty I wonder if his lifestyle choices are hitting him now.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
ZCF Hall of Famer

secretzimbo wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 1:21 pm


sam_ahm wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 1:03 pm

Raza is out for a longer time after his surgery i believe. Ervine and Williams desperately needed.

Is there any update on Jarvis? Will he be back playing cricket again?


I'm hoping Raza is back for Bangladesh Tests. 2 months from now. Although I suppose even if he is fit, he will be very rusty by then. With Burl, Sean & Raza in the team we can do away with Chisoro and get an extra pacer like Chivanga in, or an extra batter.

Word locally is that Jarvis had lost interest, and that was before he nearly died in hospital a couple of months ago. I can't see him coming back now to be honest. Especially as Ngarava and Blessing are probably going to be stalwarts in all formats for quite a while. It's sad, I'd love to see Kyle back, but realistically it's probably better to focus on Chivanga / Nyauchi / Jongwe & Evans.


That's quite sad to know about Jarvis. I still hope he recovers and makes it, esp with some important events coming up. Wishing Kyle the best.
Legend
Chivanga for the second test. Looking forward to a zim bowler hitting the 90mph zone.
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
Very poor showing from Zimbabwe, but we may as well get used to it as this is the future.

Yes we have talented youngsters, but they need to be scoring lots of runs in domestic cricket for 4-5 years before being blooded. Unfortunately because they are in Zimbabwe they will average 25 over three Logan Cup matches and be thrust into international cricket. Whatever worldclass talent we do produce we have no way of harnessing it.
My All-time Zimbabwe XI
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
ZCF Hall of Famer

secretzimbo wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 3:49 pm


TapsC2 wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 3:41 pm

I will put it this way. 5 years from now you will all be talking about Myers because when he settles you will all be amazed but that Madhevere grit and determination is also priceless


He's going to uni later this year apparently. I'm not sure where. :(


UK. May give cricket a go when he is 23/24.
ZCF Hall of Famer

TapsC2 wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 3:36 pm

People might kill me for this but the truth is Williams> BT. He just wants it more. Don’t forget Williams never ever got the BT bucks. He had disciplinary issues and they dropped him but here he is giving 150% every single time. Talent is only part of the equation


BT is demotivated, just winding down. Sean has that drive BT had around 2011.
ZCF Hall of Famer

secretzimbo wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 3:46 pm


ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 3:08 pm


secretzimbo wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 12:45 pm

f**k. This is extremely poor. To be expected though, considering we are missing 5 players through injury; Ervine, Williams, Raza, Burl & Wes.

Let's remember this is arguably a B team. Let's not panic.


I see it slightly more pessimistic.

This is a glimpse 3 years into the future when those guys are done.

Only Wes has the ability to grow but I don’t

Think he has as amazing an ability as some people make out.


Yeah I know what you mean. But I think there are reasons to be optimistic;

- I'll disagree with you on Wes. I think he is a true generational talent.

- Shumba is a classy player. He has the potentially to be easily better than any of our current openers; Masvaure, Kasuza, Chari, Chamu etc. He'll be much better than any of the guys we've had at the top for the last 10 years.

- People rate Myers very highly.

- I don't know if Marumani can develop a red-ball game, but he'll be gun in white ball cricket.

- Bawa is better than them all.

- Burl will be at the peak of his career in a couple of years.

- Jongwe & Kaia are positive additions to the national squad.

- Musakanda just needs a bloody good coach to sort out a few small issues.

- Blessing & Ngarava are the genuine pace bowlers we've all been crying out for for years.

- People in the system rate Chivanga really highly. I dont know personally, but a Blessing/Ngarava/Chivanga trio sounds exciting.

- We might see one or two players come back once the big 4 retire and there are paths into the team; maybe Welch, Higgins, Murray, B Curran, Snater? Who knows.

- I've heard that Ewing is on record as saying he believes the next U19 batch is just as good as the last one.

The reasons to be pessimistic are ZC of course. They'll find a way to f**k it up sooner or later. All the above is reliant on good management, good selection, good coaching and a stable environment. When pigs fly, etc etc.


I love your optimism!

The forum needs people like you to counter people like me.

I’ll address folllw up thoughts one by one:

- Wes.... I think he’s a bright spark and has a bright future. I don’t think he’s Going to be a Williams or Taylor, but I think he will be a slightly better Taibu. That will be more than handy. At the same time, as a betting man, that’s not a bet I’d back money on. I can see him being what I just described, or fizzing out, or being superb. Hard to tell. The one concern I have about him is he has that style that makes batting look like hard work. Which often in my mind is an indicator a batter is playing above his God given potential. Which then makes me think.. how long can he sustain it?

- shumba. Haven’t seen enough of him, but I am certain he’s going to be better than the Matsi or Chibhabha type, the latter of which still has Hamilton’s semen dribbling down his chin from being allocated national captain despite barely being Logan cup standard. A player I used to like who’s ruined his rep Utseya Style.

-Myers. The word is he is sensational and the best of the lot. Including Wes. But he’s going to uni and will be another who fades away when he’s lost three years to uni. They just don’t learn.

- burl will be 10% better than current hurl unless he finds batting form. He seems to prefer being a leggie now though and I dare say he’s the best leggie in the country atm. Which is handy with his batting background. Odd player.

- Jongwe and Kaia WILL be up and down. This is one the betting man in me WILL back.

- musakanda confuses me too. Very Maruma like

- blessing and ngarava are as decent as we have had.

- no idea about chivanga either

- if ZC has any care or sense they would employ a recruiter to scour the diaspora. To me that’s the answer. Murray I think is cooked. He’s lost too many years away from the game. Tragedy.

- Ewing could be talking positive fluff. Googly said the next gen are struggling massively.
That was dire. Sad to watch. It is true we had injuries and we've always struggled at home vs Pakistan, but oi.

Were 3 debuts in one match a smart move? I know about the injuries but it just seems like a helluva risk.

Many, many years ago Andy Flower gave an interview to SA Cricket Action magazine stating that he believed that the best way forward for Zimbabwe was to bring in players extremely young and blood them. This would allow them to play against the very best from very young and improve, in the end granting them greater experience than their contemporaries. I wish I still had the article. (Note: he actually brought Taibu in at what...15, as his 'apprentice' - and what a good player he could have been without our bull dust politics!

I think the challenges are, still:

1. Not enough tests or international cricket being played in general. Alistair Campbell gave an extensive interview a while back on why we couldn't play more. Basically, it's too expensive. Couldn't we play more 'unofficial' tests vs Namibia, SA A, India A, maybe Ireland, Holland? If they aren't official we can use cheaper balls, not televise them, not pay for 5 star hotels, etc. But the guys would play more cricket. A lot more. Hell, aim for a series every month! What about Zimbabwe A vs Zimbabwe games to give them more middle time?

2. Club / franchise cricket / lower level cricket - is it me or are standards lower now? More coaching support is needed from ZC.

3. In my view (sorry Googly) - cricket is still not being played widely enough in Zimbabwe. I truly believe that if you become a teacher in Zimbabwe you should be required to hold coaching certs in soccer and one other sport - with cricket the preferred option. But it could include netball, athletics, etc. That would mean within a generation cricket knowledge would exist is every single school in the land - and we know how obsessed Zimbos are with regards to going to sodding school! Catch em young!

4. Make cricket the mandatory summer sport in all boys schools countrywide. Equipment will be a problem but the Indians all play tape ball cricket. Why can't we?

5. Why do our batsmen move around the batting card so much? Can't the coaching team decide a batsman's career position, train him to play there, and then play him there? Chopping and changing breeds uncertainty.

6. Our board. Oi. What the hell are they up to? Like seriously. I'm not being sarcastic. What are they doing?

7. What's going on with our physical conditioning? We seem unfit. Surely this should be priority? If we can't afford more trainers make the lads train with the army, preferably the paratroopers. Talk to Mazaiwana and BEG him to help. Select the best 30 cricketers as a 'platoon' and send them to Andre Rabie barracks to be conditioned. They'll put them through the mill, and they'll feel like s**t, but you'll have ultrafit fellas at the end.

8. Mental conditioning. Dear Lord. Cricket is 90 percent mental. If we refuse to focus on this we'll never improve. Can't this be looked at?
ZCF OriginalLegend
It obviously was not a bad pitch to bat on. I get many will say that this is a B team and yes I can give some leniency to that, but that many of the guys who would be in the A team failed as well negates the B team excuse.

Our batting was exposed in Afghanistan series, and so was our ability to get breakthroughs when we needed them. None of those things were fixed and they happened badly in this test too.

We are well out of our depth in tests and you can bet the Aussies would be looking at this and wondering why they should play us in a test match. We need some serious change and it has to start with the coaches.
Veteran
With Little to very few Rhodesians left in the system,This is exactly what you should expect from the Black Populace left in Charge of Cricket in Zimbabwe.

They need to start investing in Rhodesians period!

Most Rhodesian cricketers would never accept this kind of standard.

So we are left to contend with Mediocre Black talent that has no drive or Will to win and fight for the Pride of the Country.

What we have is a Group of individuals who continue to run with the status associated with being a Director and Chairman of ZC, with no interest in growing the sport but only Maintaining it to a level that they continue to receive they pay cheque and drive around in top of the range vehicles and live in affluent suburbs.

My messages is simple let the Rhodesians participate or continue to expect this current standard as the norm.

If the remaining Rhodesians were to set up Parallel structures that run cricket locally ,they will be able to set up a team that can contest at a standard better than what ZC have in place.

Don’t frustrate the Rhodesians kids let them play,their grandparents and great grand fathers helped attaining Full members status.

ZC must open their eyes and let some of these Rhodesians kids participate,stop frustrating them.
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
Given Rhodesia ended in 1980 I'm thinking any current-day Rhodesians might be a bit old for international cricket?
My All-time Zimbabwe XI
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
Veteran
😂

eugene wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 4:06 am

Given Rhodesia ended in 1980 I'm thinking any current-day Rhodesians might be a bit old for international cricket?
ZCF Hall of Famer
My thoughts from the match

Kasuza is going to be Vusi/ Hami/ Regis frustrating type player! He looks so assured at the crease but always gets out once he’s settled.

Tari finally starting to show signs he could be a successful test batsman in this innings, that run-out was so bad and at such a bad time.

If everyone was fit I’d have no problem dropping BT, he plays for himself and doesn’t care about the match scenario or the teams needs.

Blessing is now averaging 22 with the ball!!! I know it’s early days but that’s impressive, I’m looking forward to watching him bowl against Bangladesh, hopefully on juicy pitches.

For the next test this is the side I’d go with

Kasuza

Tari

BT

Williams (if fit)

Kaia

Shumba

Regis

Chisoro

Tiripano

Blessing

Nyauchi
Veteran

jaybro wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 8:21 am

My thoughts from the match

Kasuza is going to be Vusi/ Hami/ Regis frustrating type player! He looks so assured at the crease but always gets out once he’s settled.

Tari finally starting to show signs he could be a successful test batsman in this innings, that run-out was so bad and at such a bad time.

If everyone was fit I’d have no problem dropping BT, he plays for himself and doesn’t care about the match scenario or the teams needs.

Blessing is now averaging 22 with the ball!!! I know it’s early days but that’s impressive, I’m looking forward to watching him bowl against Bangladesh, hopefully on juicy pitches.

For the next test this is the side I’d go with

Kasuza

Tari

BT

Williams (if fit)

Kaia

Shumba

Regis

Chisoro

Tiripano

Blessing

Nyauchi


Do we need chisoro if Williams plays. Because we need another batsmen to strengthen the weak batting.

Kasuza

Tari

Bt

Williams

Kaia

Wes

Shumba

Regis

Tripiano/jongwe

Blessing

Nyauchi/Ngarava

Means we bat to 9 with this proposed side. It's at Harare right?

Williams should only play if fully fit. Why aren't we playing nyauchi, Ngarava and blessing all together?
ZCF Hall of Famer

zimlover wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 1:13 am

With Little to very few Rhodesians left in the system,This is exactly what you should expect from the Black Populace left in Charge of Cricket in Zimbabwe.

They need to start investing in Rhodesians period!

Most Rhodesian cricketers would never accept this kind of standard.

So we are left to contend with Mediocre Black talent that has no drive or Will to win and fight for the Pride of the Country.

What we have is a Group of individuals who continue to run with the status associated with being a Director and Chairman of ZC, with no interest in growing the sport but only Maintaining it to a level that they continue to receive they pay cheque and drive around in top of the range vehicles and live in affluent suburbs.

My messages is simple let the Rhodesians participate or continue to expect this current standard as the norm.

If the remaining Rhodesians were to set up Parallel structures that run cricket locally ,they will be able to set up a team that can contest at a standard better than what ZC have in place.

Don’t frustrate the Rhodesians kids let them play,their grandparents and great grand fathers helped attaining Full members status.

ZC must open their eyes and let some of these Rhodesians kids participate,stop frustrating them.


Find me anybody under the age of 50, who actually still lives in Zimbabwe, who describes themselves as ‘Rhodesian’

You are so out of touch it’s unreal. Would bet my life you live overseas and haven’t been back for years.

Thankfully there’s very very few people with your attitudes left. What a sad little bore you are.

Your continued race baiting posts will kill this forum and turn a lot of good posters away.
ZCF Hall of Famer

secretzimbo wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 8:53 am


zimlover wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 1:13 am

With Little to very few Rhodesians left in the system,This is exactly what you should expect from the Black Populace left in Charge of Cricket in Zimbabwe.

They need to start investing in Rhodesians period!

Most Rhodesian cricketers would never accept this kind of standard.

So we are left to contend with Mediocre Black talent that has no drive or Will to win and fight for the Pride of the Country.

What we have is a Group of individuals who continue to run with the status associated with being a Director and Chairman of ZC, with no interest in growing the sport but only Maintaining it to a level that they continue to receive they pay cheque and drive around in top of the range vehicles and live in affluent suburbs.

My messages is simple let the Rhodesians participate or continue to expect this current standard as the norm.

If the remaining Rhodesians were to set up Parallel structures that run cricket locally ,they will be able to set up a team that can contest at a standard better than what ZC have in place.

Don’t frustrate the Rhodesians kids let them play,their grandparents and great grand fathers helped attaining Full members status.

ZC must open their eyes and let some of these Rhodesians kids participate,stop frustrating them.


Find me anybody under the age of 50, who actually still lives in Zimbabwe, who describes themselves as ‘Rhodesian’

You are so out of touch it’s unreal. Would bet my life you live overseas and haven’t been back for years.

Thankfully there’s very very few people with your attitudes left. What a sad little bore you are.

Your continued race baiting posts will kill this forum and turn a lot of good posters away.


Heads up, your giving him the reaction he’s wanting.

Goes for everyone.
Re Myers (and others like him). ZC needs to find a way to engage with these cricketers while they are studying. I still think for a select few you offer to pay their uni fees on the proviso that they come back and sign up for ZC for two years minimum (or repay ZC in full).

If you did it on a case by case basis it would not be prohibitively expensive (eg in the last few years maybe only Murray and Myers).

One thing Taibu was so good at during the Rising Stars thing. He was prepared to look at everyone. Also, I would relax the Logan Cup rules. It didn't apply to Mire. So for Myers you go away and study. Play club cricket in the UK but when in Zim play here and we will pick you.

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