Future tour rumours

We won’t be actively importing players.

But it’s getting to the point where several are struggling in England and not even getting games. A few might come back out of their own volition.

But if you can’t even get a game for Leicester, Derby or Northants - are you really good enough to massively improve Zimbabwe in international cricket?

Top drawer 20 year olds make a few big teams, it's not just here. By 20 you've generally got your quota of ability, what remains is the mental side, maturity and experience.

Our local cricket is just not up to scratch. Madhevere is a fine example. He was touted as the saviour of our cricket and came out of that u19 set up looking really promising, but despite a fair amount of exposure he hasn't really kicked on. I'm not saying it's too late for him, I'm just pointing out he's falling into that Zim mold of being ok but not exceptional and as a fact theyre grooming him for captaincy before they know if hes going to be any good or not. Thats a mix of desperation and ignorance right there. Actually Shumba, with less batting talent looks more composed than Madhevere, which shows that cricket is played upstairs.

ZC continue to turn their backs on the U19's.

Bennett and Welch showed huge promise as batsmen and should have been given immediate exposure in our domestic cricket. Actually they should have immediately been put into our quality Academy under Houghton and Brent, but of course we don't have one. The only country without one. 😂 You reap what you sow. Those two guys would be getting proper treatment in another country, even a blind man can see how much potential they have. Colour continues to be a major factor because Shumba, Myers and Madhevere from the previous u19's were given royal treatment and these two lads are every bit as good.

They both should have been on that Nepal tour. They showed promise against a strong Namibian side, yet got limited exposure, Welch Jr has huge potential as an opener. He basically won that T20 domestic final for Mash Eagles and actually looked a lot more composed than Madhevere, averages well north of 50 in the Vigne Cup and shows promise as a keeper. Do we need opening batsmen and keepers or don't we? 😂 He's only just turned 18, if a black kid had done that it would be headline news 😂 yet it was barely worthy of mention.

And they send Cephas to Nepal? Thats a face saving exercise and not a developmental strategy. He comes off now and then in spectacular fashion and wins you the game, but he's not the future. He probably should have been there from the outset, but don't send him to save the blushes after you're getting humped. That sends him a poor message as well. They're saying we know you're better than these guys but you're past the sell by date but save us 😂

My hero, Darren Stevens is 45 and should probably be in the English set up now. 😂

They're hoping Madande will come good, and he well might, I have my doubts. At the higher levels cricket is a mental game and it looks like he will struggle. I'd be concerned if i was a selector after watching him. Surely have a back-up plan for a keeper batsman. One option is Shardendorf. He's not going to get exposure at Notts with Moores as the encumbant, he'll be their reserve keeper there for a while, or may get picked up by another County. He's just got back to back centuries as well. That second one was a top innings, better than a run a ball. I watched his 4's on a highlight reel. He'd walk into our domestic leagues and dominate. He was thereabouts with Shumba, Madhevere, Myers, Bennett and Welch Jr at U19 and is now well ahead of them all because of superior coaching and level of cricket. People can bluster all they like but he's gone to the next level because he's in a thoroughly professional environment. If we cant match our national set up to a County set up then there's a major problem. ZC keep thinking they only need one replacement and it keeps backfiring and there's no learning curve at all. They want an international side that only loses by small margins on a budget 😂 I'd like to think they'll learn but they won't. They don't need to, nobody cares and the money continues to miraculously appear, its like being 5 and believing Father Xmas will come for the rest of your life.

I'll bet my bottom dollar that if they'd offered Bennett a pathway here he'd be here right now. If they fail they fail, but you have to give them a chance and a monthly salary to eke out a living, unless of course ZC feel that a batsman only needs to practice twice a week for 3 months of the year? Clearly they believe that because thats how the payment system is structured.

People with options are not going to practice 2 hours a day for the next 10 years for free so the chefs can drive VX 200's. 😂 They spend more money on petrol on "company" vehicles than they're prepared to spend on salaries for young men with real potential, that is a sad state of affairs.

Only the guys here with absolutely zero options will present themselves for games year in and year out for a few hundred bucks a month for 3 months of the year, and we keep seeing that no matter how often you reshuffle them not one is going to emerge as a decent international.

Unfortunately this greedy mentality will never change and neither will our results. In fact theyre going to get worse.

As you say, Taps, the current policy of only selecting guys showing "allegiance" to domestic cricket cant work. We've seen all of them and they all struggle and will continue to do so. Theres still time to persevere with this strategy and they should. The only way for people who dont really understand is for the lesson to be an extremely painful one. The cricket World moves forward and we go slightly backwards with each passing year. We have become entirely irrelevant in the cricketing world, and we have not justified our full membership and the significant money we receive for a long time. There surely has to be a time limit on this?

secretzimbo wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 7:05 am

We won’t be actively importing players.

But it’s getting to the point where several are struggling in England and not even getting games. A few might come back out of their own volition.

But if you can’t even get a game for Leicester, Derby or Northants - are you really good enough to massively improve Zimbabwe in international cricket?

That's a good point and clearly what's been discussed.

There's 5 guys there- Byrom, Curran, Welch, Muyeye and Schardendorf that are good players.

Most batters take time to mature. Byrom has had the longest run of it, had bursts of great cricket, moved to Glamorgan and hasn't had a start there as he's injured.

This guy is a serious batsman. I don't know why he hasn't fired.

Welch was basically out for a year with injury and hasn't had opportunity. Hard to understand why as Leicestershire get destroyed by everyone they come up against. He will get white ball games I'm sure and we will see this year how he goes. Finally. I think he will probably get the second block of red ball towards the end of the season. Their coach perseveres with a losing team in every format and Welch continues to make runs in Two's. I know he feels mightily aggrieved that marginal players continue to get extended runs.

Muyeye, as of yet, has not fired, but he probably will. It may be that white ball is his format.

Curran is probably the guy with the least ability out of these guys, and has not secured a first team berth, yet fires fairly regularly and is a good player.

So are these guys prospective international stars? Possibly not, but we will clearly never know. Are they better than the guys we've got here (Williams, Ervine, Raza excluded)?

Hands down by a country mile. There is no comparison, of that I'm 1000% certain. Muyeye, Welch and Byrom had extraordinary school careers so they were miles ahead of anyone here, they've been in professional environments playing hundreds of quality games for years, so they can't not be at the next level.

Would they turn us into a winning international side? Probably not. Would they make us more competitive and make our regular losses not massacres? Absolutely.

If the philosophy is it doesn't matter how much you get murdered by then we must continue as we are.

In Flowers' days we were never a winning side!! We were a competitive side that was taken seriously and respected by all who played us.

Getting battered to a pulp by Associates and 3rd string SA sides clearly is palatable. If it happens often enough you get used to it, it's like eating chickens' feet.

Clearly ZC are hoping they fail and come home with their tails between their legs to play for $200 a month. It well might work. 😂 What a proactive business strategy! 😂

Back to that Flower era. Those guys got d**ked for a long time before they started to figure stuff out. But the point is there were players there with the capacity to claw their way up, and there were enough of them because its a team sport. They also had some serious support structures.

You can shuffle our existing guys around for as long as you like and nothing will change. There's a handful that will learn, the rest simply don't have the goods. We are short of players, particularly batsmen. We will see how our post Big Five era rolls out soon enough, its upon us. Buckle up, its going to be depressing.

Googly wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 8:15 am

Top drawer 20 year olds make a few big teams, it's not just here. By 20 you've generally got your quota of ability, what remains is the mental side, maturity and experience.

Surely an actually decent coach and stable coaching setup could make a really big difference on this - the mental and maturity side. Somehow we still have an absolute fraud in the job who turns up once every six months and doesn't seem to do much even when he does bother to show his face. It's very clear from what I've heard that the players consider and even call Matsi head coach. And whilst he's a nice guy, he obviously isn't leading international head coach material. Klusener may be able to help, but it really is a mystery why this Indian fraud remains.

ZC continue to turn their backs on the U19's.

Bennett and Welch showed huge promise as batsmen and should have been given immediate exposure in our domestic cricket. Actually they should have immediately been put into our quality Academy under Houghton and Brent, but of course we don't have one. The only country without one. 😂 You reap what you sow. Those two guys would be getting proper treatment in another country, even a blind man can see how much potential they have. Colour continues to be a major factor because Shumba, Myers and Madhevere from the previous u19's were given royal treatment and these two lads are every bit as good. They both should have been on that Nepal tour. They showed promise against a strong Namibian side, yet got limited exposure, Welch Jr has huge potential as an opener. He basically won that T20 domestic final for Mash Eagles and actually looked a lot more composed than Madhevere, averages well north of 50 in the Vigne Cup and shows promise as a keeper. Do we need opening batsmen and keepers or don't we? 😂 He's only just turned 18, if a black kid had done that it would be headline news 😂 yet it was barely worthy of mention.

I don't disagree, but Welch did play the entire T20 tournament. I think he's still in his final year of school so it's unlikely he would be going to Nepal for a few weeks at this point, to be fair. Let's see if he appears in franchise next season. I would think Nick's difficulties getting in to England might have put Matt off that. I don't know if the Bennett's are interested - as they haven't even played club. I think they are in/going to SA for the short-term. You're right though, and they should be making an effort to retain them of course.

Only the guys here with absolutely zero options will present themselves for games year in and year out for a few hundred bucks a month for 3 months of the year, and we keep seeing that no matter how often you reshuffle them not one is going to emerge as a decent international.

This is it in a nut shell.

Myers was smart and had options, and he's gone.

Wes isn't very bright. Stayed.

Marumani is apparently thick as buffalo s**t 😂 He's stayed.

Anyone with any other option - be that as a passport or a brain, will be gone.

I can't get over the Myers loss. I thought throwing him in to each format last year would have worked and convinced him. I don't know if they offered him a full national contract. They pay well, but there's only about 15 available.

But he's smart and quite a pushy family so I guess that's that. The uni he is at doesn't even appear to have a cricket team. What a loss he is. Bawa will probably go the same way.

Googly wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 8:51 am

Curran is probably the guy with the least ability out of these guys, and has not secured a first team berth, yet fires fairly regularly and is a good player.

I don't think he's a world class player but I'd still love for him, once, to play for Zim jut for the nostalgia of the Curran name. He's out of contract this year so I can see him ending up here if he runs out of options. He's done well in our domestics the last two years but clearly not on the level of the other overseas guys. He wasn't born here so I don't think he will have a passport? I'd say he's the most realistic of the lot though. Maybe Welch Sr one day, but not any time soon. The 2027 World Cup might be a big draw? If we haven't completely capitulated by then! 😂

Byrom will probably end up trying for Ireland if it doesn't work out at his new county. That's crazy though, I watched the stream of that game PJ played earlier in the week. If you ever need comforting about the standard of our domestic cricket, watch theirs! Bowling in particular is park level. Those teams would get humiliated in the Logan Cup. But I suppose a guaranteed stable income and a better quality of life is important.

We are short of players, particularly batsmen. We will see how our post Big Five era rolls out soon enough, its upon us. Buckle up, its going to be depressing.

Depresses me just thinking about it. Quite possible we lose all of Ervine, Williams, Raza and Regis in just over a years time. Unless Shumba and Wes basically double their current ability and form, it is going to be brutal. They might convince Reggie and Sikandar to stay an extra year or two I suppose. Not going to be fun at all.

Reggie is 34 and Raza and Craig are 36. They won't be around for 2027 but Reggie could be around for another 3-4 years and the other two for a couple of years.

I keep going back to Darren Stevens (45) and all things are possible 😂 They need to do a study on this guy, he's a freak of nature. I see he hasn't been in the line up for the last couple of games which makes me bleak. I just love watching this man. He defies nature.

Realistically most guys knock it on the head by the age of 38-39, but everyone's abilities decline at different rates with age. It's not just their ability but I guess their desire, hence Cook retiring from International cricket yet remaining the best opener in England by a mile.

If/when they offer Reggie another role I'd think he will take it immediately. That's a stress free comfortable livelihood and he's probably itching for the day. You just have to look at Hammy in the green grass the other side of the fence and get all dreamy eyed. That will probably only happen when they find a suitable replacement. He will be rooting for a good keeper/batsman more than anyone I'd guess 😂 Putting him in the side after he hasn't picked up a bat in 6 months is just plain weird. If you insist on picking local because thats their policy then surely this is a poor message? He needs to get back into the groove and the guys who have been playing should get a chance. It smacks of the selectors doing what they're told.

This English 4 day cricket is interesting to watch. Most of the top batters are clones of each other. They all focus on keeping the good balls out, don't make many mistakes, nudge it around and eventually they get a delivery with their name on it. There are very few guys that take the game to the bowlers.

Watch Bedingham, he's a South African, he's probably the most attacking batsman and he will get a call up the minute he is eligible I would think. He's damned good, has the most bizarre trigger, raises his toe to the seamers, but it works for him. Patel (Surrey) steps across to 4th and closes himself off completely and is currently a run machine. It's really bothering me that he doesn't go out every delivery as its all wrong 😂 but he just doesn't miss the ball and the bowlers are terrified to bowl stump to stump because they know thats where he wants it, then they bowl 5th stump and hes already in position and bought himself half a second. Its vexing me 😂 The big trick in this game is to not miss the ball. 😂

Compton is suddenly struggling. This is a perplexing game, no wonder batsmen have mental health issues.

You're right about Byrom, Ireland would be a logical choice for him and his family are all in UK now. But you have to ask why they provide more stability and opportunity than Zim on a fraction of our budget. You ask any coach worth his salt and they will tell you what enormous ability Ed has, more than most of his peers. His inability to be consistent makes all of us scratch our heads. The one mistake he does make in red ball is score too slowly. I'd put him in the 50 over stuff to loosen him up a little as it would improve his 4 day game.

He's betwixt and between though because he plunders in Two's. It's a mental barrier he needs to get over.

If you're always 4 off 40 you're going to get a ball with your name on it whereas if you were 18 off 40 your innings is up and running. Somerset suddenly had some really good youngsters come through and they started giving them opportunities at Ed's expense, which is partly understandable as he wasn't performing consistently. It often comes down to a coach believing in you and sticking his neck out for you. You won't find that much in England. I know he much prefers the Glamorgan environment and is looking forward to playing there. One small thing can be career changing, good or bad.

I would think Raza will be around for as long as he can swing a bat. He comes and goes as he pleases and seems to genuinely enjoy his cricket. He's matured as a cricketer as well, bats a lot more sensibly. He also has other revenue streams so is not weighed down by the stresses of daily survival and doesn't have to dance to anyone's tune. I would think ZC treat him well.

Muyeye is going to have major stress to deal with getting that monkey off his back. He just cant get going in red ball. They made a mistake batting him at 3 and 4, he should be coming in at 6 until he finds his feet and he likes to feel bat on ball which makes 3 challenging. The fact that he got opportunity at 3-4 shows how excited Kent are about him though. All youngsters are like that. Hopefully he does well in the white ball. They took a chance trying to fast track him and its backfired and set him back a year basically. 6 good deliveries can set you back a year. One good delivery or a s**t shot can end your career! What other sport offers this kind of stress? 😂 He needs to relax because he's going to get way more leeway than anyone else ever because they're so desperate to prove they're not racist.

I can't wait to see how he goes in the T20. If he can do a quarter of what he did at the lower levels he will be sensational. Unfortunately these pro bowlers don't like being carted around 😂

Possibly the main reason Welch hasn't had red ball exposure is because Leicestershire have had injuries amongst their bowlers so have had to pick guys that can bat and bowl which hasn't helped his cause. He used to be a reasonable leggie as a junior but lost the ability because he played up and never got the opportunity to continue bowling. Also not easy to be a front line batsman and a leggie. You can count those guys on two fingers. He was pulled out of the Middlesex game 20 minutes before the start because their seamer had a niggle and they were worried he wouldn't hold up. The all-rounder they put in his place got 99 not out 😂 at Lords and has cemented his spot. Talk about taking your opportunities!! If they give him 4 red ball games on the trot he'll give you a big score, he knows how to construct an innings and make runs against quality bowling and he's one of the few guys that can really change gear with little risk.

I see Jayden Goodwin is out here on a family holiday. Somebody give him an NPL game, let's see the young man bat and bowl. He's unbelievably good.

Why can't ZC offer stability, decent packages and regular games? What is the issue exactly? Ireland can do it on the sniff of an oil rag. It would be simple to get some of these guys to consider a change. The guys here are not showing allegiance, they're trapped, big difference!!

I've thought long and hard about what you said about these guys not doing much in the UK and therefore what can they offer internationally. Its a good discussion.

What about Ballance? Forget the racial thing for this purpose. No doubting his pedigree, would ZC have offered him a deal? You'd have to think absolutely yes , yet he "failed" on the international stage. If they wouldn't then we are all wasting our time. If he had made himself available and ZC had turned him down then you'd have to seriously question their motives. He is leagues ahead of anyone here. Would he win us games regularly? No. He'd win the odd one, give us a fighting chance in others and turn massacres into acceptable losses and he'd bring huge experience and stability. Will anybody amongst out current batsmen ever be as good as Ballance? Anyone who thinks so is smoking something deadly poisonous.

If ZC wouldn't consider him, as I said, it goes to motive. You know immediately that

a) money may be a factor in that the bosses would have to take less to be within budget. They've worked out long back that they can treat everybody like s**t and they just have to doff their caps and wiggle with delight.

b) colour may be an issue. Its much better but will forever unfortunately be a factor.

c) they believe in miracles with our current players. Anybody who thinks we can find a top order needs to buy lotto tickets (jury still out on Wes)

d) winning is not a priority. Winning a qualifier is, but after that it doesn't matter.

e)There's no stress that we can't get more than 200 spectators to an international. There are more people that attend impromptu braais. Cricket is now only for friends and family and regulars at the Keg because nobody expects a win. Cricket used to fill HSC ffs and not because we were winning regularly, but because the fans thought we stood a chance.

f) with Rajput still in the mix you know as a fact that ZC have not prioritised the game. They are juggling their own balls and they're not 156g leather ones. I wish someone would shed some light on what the real story is here.

If we want half a chance of putting out a team that will scrap, that gives the coaches (excluding Rajput) something to really work with what they are currently doing cannot work. Clearly they're going to try and prove that it can. The only way to hide the truth is to play as few games as possible. We just need a full international schedule and some A games and the utter futility of this will be exposed.

Ask anyone with knowledge if they'd like to have failures like Byrom, Muyeye and Welch in their squad 😂

Man, I'd love these 3 guys to come out here for a season and put them in the same team. People would be shouting "get them in the team" and there would be much enthusiasm because that would be a tough side to beat . The irony of that. Do well here and you're a world beater, but don't go and fetch them because you wouldn't look like a mafia boss 😂

I was just checking the county scores. I see my man Darren Stevens got 168!!! This dude is 45 years old, it's just hard to comprehend. They now put Muyeye up the order to open and it worked, fifty something, good on him.

Oh I see that was against a Sri Lankan development side (ZC take note, we send our guys to the Himalayas to get smashed, Sri Lanka go to the UK!)

I guess Kent had a bye, FC resumes for them next week against a powerful Surrey team, he'd better have his A game.

We only went to Nepal because their board paid for the whole thing. 😂 All our flights and accommodation was courtesy of the Nepal cricket association apparently 😂

That's great news, but I'm already nervous 😂

I very much doubt we will face their main seamers as they'll be getting rested, but they have an abundance of quicks.

secretzimbo wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 8:32 pm

We only went to Nepal because their board paid for the whole thing. 😂 All our flights and accommodation was courtesy of the Nepal cricket association apparently 😂

Our bank balance must be into 7 figures. Some low hanging fruit right there

😂

The australia games will be brutal 😂 they could pick their 10th team and we’d still get f***ed haha. But it’ll be fun seeing us tour their anyway.

So we’ve got Namibia, Afghanistan, Qualifiers, Bangladesh, India and Australia all within the next 4 months. Finally lots of games

secretzimbo wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 7:06 am

The australia games will be brutal 😂 they could pick their 10th team and we’d still get f***ed haha. But it’ll be fun seeing us tour their anyway.

So we’ve got Namibia, Afghanistan, Qualifiers, Bangladesh, India and Australia all within the next 4 months. Finally lots of games

What are Australian pitches like in august? I assume they’ll be playing in Darwin or somewhere like that? Are they less brutal/fast at that time of year?

secretzimbo wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 7:06 am

So we’ve got Namibia, Afghanistan, Qualifiers, Bangladesh, India and Australia all within the next 4 months. Finally lots of games

Just further to this, I've heard they are supposedly in contact with the Windies to organise a red and white ball 'A' tour later in the year as well.

secretzimbo wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 7:06 am

The australia games will be brutal 😂 they could pick their 10th team and we’d still get f***ed haha. But it’ll be fun seeing us tour their anyway.

So we’ve got Namibia, Afghanistan, Qualifiers, Bangladesh, India and Australia all within the next 4 months. Finally lots of games

And the T20 World Cup.. 😁

Aussies are skipping WSL games against Afghanistan and South Africa, how can they be allowed to do that?