This is a really interesting read:
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id ... cash-there
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Alistair Campbell Interview
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It’s taken you a long time to come out with that!
Well nobody can do that except through SRC and government intervention, unless you’ve got yet another ace up your sleeve? Now would be a good time.
I beg to differ about Bvute though. I still think he’s a puppet master. He designed this whole system and I’m fairly sure still controls things, albeit not as well as before. Most paths lead back to him and Metbank. Not only that, but he’s partners in crime with many many people, including Mlotshwa.
Therein lies a big problem. Mlotshwa inexplicably took his foot off Mukhulani’s throat and obviously a lot happened behind closed doors. He had a foot on his throat and both hands on his balls and suddenly it was all over. A deal was done or a quid pro quo occurred.
That damning evidence is not just sitting in Mukhulani’s and Bvute’s drawers, but in Mlotshwa’s also. AC will have some damning evidence as well. He was close to all of this. Mafia guys.
Well nobody can do that except through SRC and government intervention, unless you’ve got yet another ace up your sleeve? Now would be a good time.
I beg to differ about Bvute though. I still think he’s a puppet master. He designed this whole system and I’m fairly sure still controls things, albeit not as well as before. Most paths lead back to him and Metbank. Not only that, but he’s partners in crime with many many people, including Mlotshwa.
Therein lies a big problem. Mlotshwa inexplicably took his foot off Mukhulani’s throat and obviously a lot happened behind closed doors. He had a foot on his throat and both hands on his balls and suddenly it was all over. A deal was done or a quid pro quo occurred.
That damning evidence is not just sitting in Mukhulani’s and Bvute’s drawers, but in Mlotshwa’s also. AC will have some damning evidence as well. He was close to all of this. Mafia guys.
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This Frank Mawoza guy, there’s a rumour that it’s actually the MD in a ghost account? Does this have any truth to it..?
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sloandog wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:48 am
This Frank Mawoza guy, there’s a rumour that it’s actually the MD in a ghost account? Does this have any truth to it..?
That’s been spoken about widely here.
If it isn’t Makoni, it would be his best friend or something.
How else could you explain the Sean Bell email?
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sloandog wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:08 pm
No idea about the Sean Bell e-mail either haha
It was Sean’s lesson in respect.
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TapsC wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:15 am
Ok let me put it this way. You are fighting a losing battle. A battle you can't win online or by petitions or writing to the ICC. It is obviously their fault but you cant change it, personally I don't stress about things I can't change. I live in the present and care about the future. As long as they can't steal now then I personally don't care if they are there or not. That's how I look at it. If you want to moan about it all day then that's up to you because at the end of the day there is no saviour here.
If you ask me how I think you can remove then I can give my opinion. That's a conversation I am willing to have
You and I both know that evidence has been provided and it has also been dismissed by just laughing it off.
What baffles me is that in one post you will say, it is not their fault, then turn around and say it is obviously their fault. So which one is it? Can you understand then why it comes across as though you back the board, not sympathise, but back them.
But let's have the discussion. How do you effect change?
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sloandog wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:48 am
This Frank Mawoza guy, there’s a rumour that it’s actually the MD in a ghost account? Does this have any truth to it..?
Is he not a real person?
He has a Profile pick on his account, or is that just some random face?
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TapsC wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:20 am
jaybro wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:10 pm
TapsC wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:42 pm
Like I had said 1- it's not ZCs fault this time that the games were cancelled.
2- the ICC is suffocating them( request for PWC audit report before funding)
So how exactly are they stealing money in such conditions? I'm talking about today's board led by Mukuhlani not Chingokas board from half a decade ago. If Makoni is on 37k a month like jaybro said just know the ICC is fully aware that's how much he earns. So who exactly are you guys fighting?
The damage has been done now they’re dealing with the consequences, they’ve been in charge for a long time, if they’d done a better job prior they wouldn’t be in this mess.
The admin wages were leaked on Twitter mate everyone saw it
The ICC proved that they don’t care (or there’s something else going on behind the scenes) when they ignored the concerns of SRC and back the Mukuhlani board.
From what I’ve heard the ICC have turned a blind eye numerous times, they’re never coming to save Zimbabwe
I wish they published AC's wages and benefits and requests when he was in the mix.
Do you know what they were??
Some people indicate that AC is as bad as the rest but I’m get to see any proof, all I know is that when ever AC is involved there’s plenty of cricket and sponsorships.
We’ve seen the wages of the current admin staff, quite handsome salaries for modest work.
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Makoni is normally pretty happy to go after people on social media under his own name, not sure why he would come up with a pseudynom.
My All-time Zimbabwe XI
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
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jaybro wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:40 am
TapsC wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:20 am
jaybro wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:10 pm
The damage has been done now they’re dealing with the consequences, they’ve been in charge for a long time, if they’d done a better job prior they wouldn’t be in this mess.
The admin wages were leaked on Twitter mate everyone saw it
The ICC proved that they don’t care (or there’s something else going on behind the scenes) when they ignored the concerns of SRC and back the Mukuhlani board.
From what I’ve heard the ICC have turned a blind eye numerous times, they’re never coming to save Zimbabwe
I wish they published AC's wages and benefits and requests when he was in the mix.
Do you know what they were??
Some people indicate that AC is as bad as the rest but I’m get to see any proof, all I know is that when ever AC is involved there’s plenty of cricket and sponsorships.
We’ve seen the wages of the current admin staff, quite handsome salaries for modest work.
Let me put it this way. AC is smart enough to know where the money is e.g. the broadcasting rights. Look at how TSM got into Zim. When his brand was sponsoring Zim cricket do you think they were paying the full price? A few years back it cost between 80k and 300k to sponsor ZC. You really think he paid that? Requests for ZC to pay school fees. There is a lot of things that need to be investigated. Do I have paperwork? No but it's the same with Mukuhlani. Nobody has produced paperwork. We just know where people should look. It's one of the things I hate. Why do people demand evidence for AC but condemn others with no evidence
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zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:14 pm
TapsC wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:15 am
Ok let me put it this way. You are fighting a losing battle. A battle you can't win online or by petitions or writing to the ICC. It is obviously their fault but you cant change it, personally I don't stress about things I can't change. I live in the present and care about the future. As long as they can't steal now then I personally don't care if they are there or not. That's how I look at it. If you want to moan about it all day then that's up to you because at the end of the day there is no saviour here.
If you ask me how I think you can remove then I can give my opinion. That's a conversation I am willing to have
You and I both know that evidence has been provided and it has also been dismissed by just laughing it off.
What baffles me is that in one post you will say, it is not their fault, then turn around and say it is obviously their fault. So which one is it? Can you understand then why it comes across as though you back the board, not sympathise, but back them.
But let's have the discussion. How do you effect change?
Let me put it this way. I don't believe everything is their fault like you do. There are places I think they did ok. I don't see the likes of Chingoka sacrificing to bring back Jarvis and Taylor for that kind of money or hosting the qualifier (unlike the world cup the qualifier didn't bring much money in). I don't know if they would have pulled off the ZAMCO deal. They fired Esther Lupepe who has hands were dirty. The level of incompetence between 2005 and 2014 was shocking. It could have been far worse. That's how I look at it.
Change will come by understanding the election process, who votes and what they want. You will remember Mukuhlani pulled off a spectacular coup to get there in the first with his challenge only coming in the morning and catching Manase off guard. If you want change you first have to identify a board member who can be a transitional proxy. Identify more board members who you can turn. A lot of them don't care much about who is in charge.
Rainsford would have been the perfect inside man but he acted without thinking it through. It doesn't matter who the chairman is. Most board chairmen are not cricket people. What you need
Is a competent MD and FD and coaching staff. So a proxy chairman can work.
Nobody seems to want to challenge them outright so I guess it can only be from the inside.
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TapsC wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:27 am
jaybro wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:40 am
TapsC wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:20 am
I wish they published AC's wages and benefits and requests when he was in the mix.
Do you know what they were??
Some people indicate that AC is as bad as the rest but I’m get to see any proof, all I know is that when ever AC is involved there’s plenty of cricket and sponsorships.
We’ve seen the wages of the current admin staff, quite handsome salaries for modest work.
Let me put it this way. AC is smart enough to know where the money is e.g. the broadcasting rights. Look at how TSM got into Zim. When his brand was sponsoring Zim cricket do you think they were paying the full price? A few years back it cost between 80k and 300k to sponsor ZC. You really think he paid that? Requests for ZC to pay school fees. There is a lot of things that need to be investigated. Do I have paperwork? No but it's the same with Mukuhlani. Nobody has produced paperwork. We just know where people should look. It's one of the things I hate. Why do people demand evidence for AC but condemn others with no evidence
IIRC correctly didn’t Brickhill & Holme produce a report of sorts with proof a while back? I’m pretty sure they even came on the forum to explain it?
I don’t claim to be ITK (in the know) but I’ve been told things that make me confident when I say these guys who have been running the game are crook, I don’t expect you to believe it because I told you so but I’m confident.
I’m not saying AC is definitely clean but no one has any proof to say otherwise, your statement about is our mud slinging, throw mud at the wall and hope it sticks
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Show me the report that proves Mukuhlani himself personally stole. I want to see it. The internet doesnt forget
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Can you even name all the board members? Can you also tell me exactly what they stole. If we are going to keep those high standards of proof for AC. Let's do it for everybody.
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I can tell you now that Katundu did not pay the correct price for marketing. I don't work there so obviously I don't have the paperwork but this I know.
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TapsC wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:51 am
Let me put it this way. I don't believe everything is their fault like you do. There are places I think they did ok. I don't see the likes of Chingoka sacrificing to bring back Jarvis and Taylor for that kind of money or hosting the qualifier (unlike the world cup the qualifier didn't bring much money in). I don't know if they would have pulled off the ZAMCO deal. They fired Esther Lupepe who has hands were dirty. The level of incompetence between 2005 and 2014 was shocking. It could have been far worse. That's how I look at it.
Change will come by understanding the election process, who votes and what they want. You will remember Mukuhlani pulled off a spectacular coup to get there in the first with his challenge only coming in the morning and catching Manase off guard. If you want change you first have to identify a board member who can be a transitional proxy. Identify more board members who you can turn. A lot of them don't care much about who is in charge.
Rainsford would have been the perfect inside man but he acted without thinking it through. It doesn't matter who the chairman is. Most board chairmen are not cricket people. What you need
Is a competent MD and FD and coaching staff. So a proxy chairman can work.
Nobody seems to want to challenge them outright so I guess it can only be from the inside.
When then whose fault is it? Surely you want your best players to play for the side and you do everything you can (within reason) to get them. If ZC offered too much, that's ZCs fault. It shouldn't always come back to BT and Jarvis though because without them, we would have lost some really terrible games.
We have dropped in the rankings. Have no domestic comp or money. We are losing players (need I remind you that of those making an impact at the moment in international comps) at an alarming rate. We are not giving players that should be given a chance a go. We are an after thought to the rest of the cricketing world, when once we were a emerging force causing serious problems. How much worse do you want it to get before it's accepted to be bad?
So effectively what you are saying, is buy off those who make the votes and you effect change.
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TapsC wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:53 am
Show me the report that proves Mukuhlani himself personally stole. I want to see it. The internet doesnt forget
As I said from what I know I'm confident in believing they've mis-used funds
https://www.herald.co.zw/zc-misused-icc-loan/
That's the article I was talking about
In fairness the main accusation from the forum members is that the game is run poorly which you can't deny, your only comeback to that is that there's no one who can do it better, yet when DEB & Hogg came in to do it Muhkalani fought tooth and nail to hold on. That in itself is a sign to me that these guys know it's too good of a gig to give up despite you suggesting they might walk away because there's no money anyways which is laughable.
In the end of the day these guys who have been running the game for the last two decades, whether it being under Chingoka or Muhkalani they've done a s**t house job and the only defence you got tis to deflect blame on Campbell, funnily enough Frank Zolsky does the same thing when people hammer the board on twitter.
Makoni has been proven to be racist by many people and on many occasions, the time he wanted to dig the pitch up because Matsi was getting dropped or when he vetoed Alan Butcher & Wayne James during a selection meeting when they wanted to drop Utseya. Yet he has been involved in ZC for ever and has held many different important positions and now is earning top money
You seem like a smart fella so I don't know why you want to defend these guys at every chance
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If I have to summarise this argument.
TapsC wants to bring change slowly from within.
Others collectively want to revolutionise change from the outset.
Surprised on so much arguing from that.
TapsC wants to bring change slowly from within.
Others collectively want to revolutionise change from the outset.
Surprised on so much arguing from that.
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When are next elections ?
Taht could be a good window to effect changes needed.
Taht could be a good window to effect changes needed.
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I read the AC interview in full. He seems like the kind of guy who does want whats best, but is very careful to make sure he looks after AC first. He speaks a lot of sense about how the general game of cricket is developing, which says a lot about the ICC and how incompetent they are. To be fair, they look out for the top 3 and just keep the others as kind of a way of saying they are actually doing something.
He has a point in the two-faced attitude of the ICC.
This so much too. How can anyone sit back and continue to allow such incompetence from ZC. After the ban was lifted, 6 months of nothing. DEB and Hogg had a domestic season plan ready after a few weeks. It just baffles that they get away with so much shithousery and the rest of the cricketing world does not care.
This stood out for me because it basically sums up how the ICC don't really care about anyone outside the top 3.
He has a point in the two-faced attitude of the ICC.
Now [the ICC ban has] been lifted but there was six months of nothing going on in Zimbabwe. No salaries, no cricket. Crazy, crazy, crazy that in this day and age you can't intervene and say, "Hold on guys, you can't do it this way."
This so much too. How can anyone sit back and continue to allow such incompetence from ZC. After the ban was lifted, 6 months of nothing. DEB and Hogg had a domestic season plan ready after a few weeks. It just baffles that they get away with so much shithousery and the rest of the cricketing world does not care.
Once upon a time the ICC had a Test grant [Test match fund], I think it was $10 million [over eight years], that they put aside for subsidising Test matches for the "lesser" nations. To help them out, because it's costly to host a Test match. They've withdrawn that now and said, "No, you guys should be able to make your own plan."
This stood out for me because it basically sums up how the ICC don't really care about anyone outside the top 3.
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