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The greatest season that was: Andy Flower podcast
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Yeup I’ve listened to it, very interesting and great to get an insight on possibly the greatest ever Zimbabwean side?
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It was actually fun to follow Zimbabwean cricket back then. Amazing how far we have fallen in 20 years. We didn't realise it at the time but Zimbabwe's decline into a basket case had already begun with the "land-reform" debacle about to hit the fan.
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Not a bad interview, but it’s nothing we haven’t heard before. You’d think they would crack into some more pointed questions in the hopes of something different.
Sounded like a batsman being interviewed after a decent innings 😂 all vanilla and stuff. Actually sounded like someone keeping his options open.
Sounded like a batsman being interviewed after a decent innings 😂 all vanilla and stuff. Actually sounded like someone keeping his options open.
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I was covering Zimbabwe in the 1999 World Cup for Cricinfo, and I must say that they actually underperformed badly. There were a couple of brilliant victories, but also much very mediocre play that drove coach Dave Houghton to distraction. I think the reason is that most of the players seriously lacked self-confidence and didn't believe they were good enough to beat the top teams in the world.
The victory over South Africa came when Zimbabwe thought they had been knocked out of the tournament following rather feeble defeats by Sri Lanka and England, and the pressure was off them. I went into the dressing room at Chelmsford after the match to celebrate the victory, only to find there was no celebration, just a stunned silence! Neil Johnson was obviously quite happy, but otherwise the atmosphere would have suited a morgue! Nobody walking in by accident would have thought this was a victorious team.
I thought I would encourage them by telling them that England looked like losing their match with India and Zimbabwe could get through to the Super Sixes, and met with no enthusiasm at all. Mentally they were on the plane home already, and I feared then that they would flop in the Super Sixes, which happened. I cannot help wondering how much impact they would have made if only they had the self-belief to play their best in every match.
The victory over South Africa came when Zimbabwe thought they had been knocked out of the tournament following rather feeble defeats by Sri Lanka and England, and the pressure was off them. I went into the dressing room at Chelmsford after the match to celebrate the victory, only to find there was no celebration, just a stunned silence! Neil Johnson was obviously quite happy, but otherwise the atmosphere would have suited a morgue! Nobody walking in by accident would have thought this was a victorious team.
I thought I would encourage them by telling them that England looked like losing their match with India and Zimbabwe could get through to the Super Sixes, and met with no enthusiasm at all. Mentally they were on the plane home already, and I feared then that they would flop in the Super Sixes, which happened. I cannot help wondering how much impact they would have made if only they had the self-belief to play their best in every match.
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Self-belief has been a problem with Zim for a very long time. It's almost as if as we got better, we began to doubt ourselves more.
Now the guys don't really care. As long as they get their pay check, they're not bothered.
Now the guys don't really care. As long as they get their pay check, they're not bothered.
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I’m not sure that’s true. Everyone wants to win, they just don’t believe they can. When they eventually play a big side it’s going to feel particularly daunting. They see these guys on TV fairly regularly and read about them and here they are struggling against AssocIates. I don’t know how you gear yourself for that mentally. I’m not sure you can because we really are way off the mark now.
The expectation is that we should be competing and that’s particularly daunting. Associates can play a big side with clear heads.
When we first made our way in international cricket I know the players started out by being determined to just compete, to make the opposition have to actually fight for a win and they also knew that they had a couple of guys of real ability and international caliber. Also don’t forget the overall standard of international cricket has improved. Yes there were some great players back then in other teams but everything improves and that was nearly 20 years ago now.
Take a guy like Ed Byrom who’s been in a really good system for a number of years now, he actually believes he’s ready for the next level and he knows he’s got the skills to make the step up. Which of our guys could have peeled off 8 or 9 hundreds in County Two’s? Where are you going to find a guy that’s been in a fantastic system for 5 years, has played over 400 games and is genuinely good and believes in himself?
You also need guys who are not suffering from shell shock. I know none of our top batters would have managed that this season. We’re not ticking any boxes.
The guy we should never have lost is Dave Houghton. He was one of the real men that believed in himself and had that “f**k this, they’re only human, we can do this!”
Of course you need the raw material to work with, young guys with real grunt.
The reality is that when Zim cricket was taken over by guys that didn’t know what they were doing they thought this was a lot easier than it is. They actually bought into their own story of guys being denied opportunities. It was only partially true, a couple of guys were, but they did not realize that once you lost that nucleus of hard men there was no one to replace them. Talented guys like Hamilton, Vusi and Taibu I believe needed someone like Flower to make them really believe. Once you get to a certain level cricket is only played between the ears. Ideally you need to be in a team where you know there are a couple of hard men that are up for the fight, but when you suddenly look up and they’re gone and you realize you’re supposed to be the hard man before your time it ain’t gonna happen. 😂
Everyone is way too quick to talk about once a generation cricketers, our two were Andy Flower and Houghton. They were the guys that brought the real fight to the table. The really crazy thing is that they’re still in the game and our muppets don’t want them. Well they probably do, but on their terms. These guys are not trained mice, they’re lions and they won’t be dictated to by our motley crew. What an absolute indictment on these people that we have world class, world renowned and world respected ex players and coaches out there that they don’t want!! They STILL believe they can fix this themselves. 😂 😂
It’s the same old thing, if this was put to the vote- who wants Houghton and Flower running our cricket? The results would speak for themselves. 6 guys would say yes and the other 200 would either say an emphatic no or a cautious maybe as long as they promise to tow the line and not bin us or shout at us if we are actually useless. Therein lies the answer as to why we’re going nowhere fast.
The expectation is that we should be competing and that’s particularly daunting. Associates can play a big side with clear heads.
When we first made our way in international cricket I know the players started out by being determined to just compete, to make the opposition have to actually fight for a win and they also knew that they had a couple of guys of real ability and international caliber. Also don’t forget the overall standard of international cricket has improved. Yes there were some great players back then in other teams but everything improves and that was nearly 20 years ago now.
Take a guy like Ed Byrom who’s been in a really good system for a number of years now, he actually believes he’s ready for the next level and he knows he’s got the skills to make the step up. Which of our guys could have peeled off 8 or 9 hundreds in County Two’s? Where are you going to find a guy that’s been in a fantastic system for 5 years, has played over 400 games and is genuinely good and believes in himself?
You also need guys who are not suffering from shell shock. I know none of our top batters would have managed that this season. We’re not ticking any boxes.
The guy we should never have lost is Dave Houghton. He was one of the real men that believed in himself and had that “f**k this, they’re only human, we can do this!”
Of course you need the raw material to work with, young guys with real grunt.
The reality is that when Zim cricket was taken over by guys that didn’t know what they were doing they thought this was a lot easier than it is. They actually bought into their own story of guys being denied opportunities. It was only partially true, a couple of guys were, but they did not realize that once you lost that nucleus of hard men there was no one to replace them. Talented guys like Hamilton, Vusi and Taibu I believe needed someone like Flower to make them really believe. Once you get to a certain level cricket is only played between the ears. Ideally you need to be in a team where you know there are a couple of hard men that are up for the fight, but when you suddenly look up and they’re gone and you realize you’re supposed to be the hard man before your time it ain’t gonna happen. 😂
Everyone is way too quick to talk about once a generation cricketers, our two were Andy Flower and Houghton. They were the guys that brought the real fight to the table. The really crazy thing is that they’re still in the game and our muppets don’t want them. Well they probably do, but on their terms. These guys are not trained mice, they’re lions and they won’t be dictated to by our motley crew. What an absolute indictment on these people that we have world class, world renowned and world respected ex players and coaches out there that they don’t want!! They STILL believe they can fix this themselves. 😂 😂
It’s the same old thing, if this was put to the vote- who wants Houghton and Flower running our cricket? The results would speak for themselves. 6 guys would say yes and the other 200 would either say an emphatic no or a cautious maybe as long as they promise to tow the line and not bin us or shout at us if we are actually useless. Therein lies the answer as to why we’re going nowhere fast.
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Instead we’ve got a board member using a nom de plume shouting about pink Rhodesians and “we’ll never be a colony again (except maybe a Chinese one)” and waging a war all over again in his head probably because he never fought in the first one. How is this allowed to go uncensured? Herein lies another huge problem we have.
Don’t forget that this gent doesn’t just reserve his special brand of vitriol for us pink guys.
https://www.dailynews.co.zw/articles/20 ... k-outburst
Lest we forget these chaps have jostled for position against each other for many many years. One minute behind the scenes they’re at each other’s throats with some unbelievably low level stuff and the next they’re feeding quietly side by side.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesta ... ended/amp/
Don’t forget that this gent doesn’t just reserve his special brand of vitriol for us pink guys.
https://www.dailynews.co.zw/articles/20 ... k-outburst
Lest we forget these chaps have jostled for position against each other for many many years. One minute behind the scenes they’re at each other’s throats with some unbelievably low level stuff and the next they’re feeding quietly side by side.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesta ... ended/amp/
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Andy Flower would be nuts to go anywhere near Zim cricket ever again.
He's got a stellar record as a player and a coach, why go and destroy it by getting involved with a basket case like Zim? He'll never return.
He's got a stellar record as a player and a coach, why go and destroy it by getting involved with a basket case like Zim? He'll never return.
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https://www.3-mob.com/sport/colart-mako ... a6dLiWxWEc
This is an interesting article and shows the genuine concerns of black players.
However for me one paragraph there highlights an unrealistic expectation. The author makes mention of some keeper/batsmen that he feels were overlooked on racial grounds, but if you look at our keeper/batsmen over the last 15 years (Flower, Taibu, Taylor) how were these guys better than these three?
Maybe the author wasn’t clear and they weren’t all keeper/batsmen?
Anyway it highlights a big problem that we have-
The guys in our national side are usually going to struggle on the international stage simply because other teams have such large player pools and more resources and man for man they’re usually better than us. So our national side is going to fail more often than not, then do we just constantly rotate the failed cricketers with guys in the wings and hope for a miracle or do we stick with guys that someone with some skills has identified as the best we’ve got until someone really sticks their hand up?
A prime test case is going to be Munyonga, Jakiel and Mashinge. We’re in new territory here where there’s three brand new guys in the side. The jury is not in for me yet with Munyonga, he may hold his own, but the other two are going to struggle.
This is an interesting article and shows the genuine concerns of black players.
However for me one paragraph there highlights an unrealistic expectation. The author makes mention of some keeper/batsmen that he feels were overlooked on racial grounds, but if you look at our keeper/batsmen over the last 15 years (Flower, Taibu, Taylor) how were these guys better than these three?
Maybe the author wasn’t clear and they weren’t all keeper/batsmen?
Anyway it highlights a big problem that we have-
The guys in our national side are usually going to struggle on the international stage simply because other teams have such large player pools and more resources and man for man they’re usually better than us. So our national side is going to fail more often than not, then do we just constantly rotate the failed cricketers with guys in the wings and hope for a miracle or do we stick with guys that someone with some skills has identified as the best we’ve got until someone really sticks their hand up?
A prime test case is going to be Munyonga, Jakiel and Mashinge. We’re in new territory here where there’s three brand new guys in the side. The jury is not in for me yet with Munyonga, he may hold his own, but the other two are going to struggle.
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What that article does make clear is that the battle for the cricket has now been won and only white unopinionated guys who will tow the line and look after hard won black interests will be tolerated. I’d say the only white guy who’s half successfully navigated this political minefield has been Alistair Campbell, he’s a bright man.
It sums up the general consensus and it’s very enlightening in that regard.
The problem is that it’s been done so poorly by guys who were also busy jostling for position whilst at the same time pushing the cause that we’re now in a hole from which there’s little chance of escape.
That has to have been a tough fight-
Firstly presenting a united front against oppression and fighting bitterly behind the scenes for position before, during and after the battle is won. The public focuses on the big fight and the critical behind the scenes stuff goes largely unnoticed. It’s the story of Zanu at the end of the day, isn’t it?
This post of MD is all-important. Is Makoni staying on or is there a changing of the guard and if so who is in line for the job? For the package he’s purportedly on you could probably get anyone in the world 😂 and you’d get someone who isn’t going to get into the trenches on social media platforms and get into the worst low level s**t you’ve ever heard. Aside from him having fought with every single person that has ever disagreed with him if the Board thinks he’s the right guy then I fear all is lost. He has delivered nothing but hate and divisiveness. If this is the let bygones be bygones new era then let them prove that by getting a world class MD.
Not that I’m suggesting Houghton or A Flower, and I’m certain they’ve made their own lives over in UK now, but I’ll guarantee you they’re not on 20-30k a month and dodging tax. We’re looking for a local guy that ticks all the boxes for a great MD. Kudet, Taps, any suggestions?
We all focus on who’s the coach, but it’s the MD that calls the shots to really kick start our cricket.
It sums up the general consensus and it’s very enlightening in that regard.
The problem is that it’s been done so poorly by guys who were also busy jostling for position whilst at the same time pushing the cause that we’re now in a hole from which there’s little chance of escape.
That has to have been a tough fight-
Firstly presenting a united front against oppression and fighting bitterly behind the scenes for position before, during and after the battle is won. The public focuses on the big fight and the critical behind the scenes stuff goes largely unnoticed. It’s the story of Zanu at the end of the day, isn’t it?
This post of MD is all-important. Is Makoni staying on or is there a changing of the guard and if so who is in line for the job? For the package he’s purportedly on you could probably get anyone in the world 😂 and you’d get someone who isn’t going to get into the trenches on social media platforms and get into the worst low level s**t you’ve ever heard. Aside from him having fought with every single person that has ever disagreed with him if the Board thinks he’s the right guy then I fear all is lost. He has delivered nothing but hate and divisiveness. If this is the let bygones be bygones new era then let them prove that by getting a world class MD.
Not that I’m suggesting Houghton or A Flower, and I’m certain they’ve made their own lives over in UK now, but I’ll guarantee you they’re not on 20-30k a month and dodging tax. We’re looking for a local guy that ticks all the boxes for a great MD. Kudet, Taps, any suggestions?
We all focus on who’s the coach, but it’s the MD that calls the shots to really kick start our cricket.
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they will obviously look for a black guy, under no circumstances would they let a white guy at the helm. a preferred choice would be one sympathetic to the board and loyal to the ruining party or an outside bet would be hammy, but we will see..
on another note though, i really wish that the zim players take a leaf from the bangla boys. this is how you air out your grievances, mobilise every first class cricketer, table out the grievances rocking the game and not being self centered. just look at how articulate they were. the board will act. this should inspire the zw boys!!
on another note though, i really wish that the zim players take a leaf from the bangla boys. this is how you air out your grievances, mobilise every first class cricketer, table out the grievances rocking the game and not being self centered. just look at how articulate they were. the board will act. this should inspire the zw boys!!
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Fair point, but nobody but nobody can squash insubordination, insurrection and revolution faster than our people here. If they attempt to copy the Bangladesh boys this will be Hammy’s first task to nip it in the bud, he’s got a degree in this already 😂
There’s no cause to make noise just yet. I don’t think they’ve even set a date for the FC season yet? There’s no reason for them not to start right now, but I predict mid November as the rains start and another severely shortened season to save cash. For some reason they don’t like going into March and April when everything is beautiful and green, the rains have stopped and it’s nice and cool. 😂 Nothing will change here, they’ll be enthusiastic for a short while and then it will be business as normal.
Friday is a holiday where Zanu are marching against sanctions which have destroyed our country. This is how gullible people are here. God help Zimbabwe.
There’s no cause to make noise just yet. I don’t think they’ve even set a date for the FC season yet? There’s no reason for them not to start right now, but I predict mid November as the rains start and another severely shortened season to save cash. For some reason they don’t like going into March and April when everything is beautiful and green, the rains have stopped and it’s nice and cool. 😂 Nothing will change here, they’ll be enthusiastic for a short while and then it will be business as normal.
Friday is a holiday where Zanu are marching against sanctions which have destroyed our country. This is how gullible people are here. God help Zimbabwe.
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According to unconfirmed reports we do finally have a couple of Zim A games lined up.....against Uganda.
I do hope we beat them.
Women’s cricket ... box ticked
Zim A tour .... box ticked.
U14 age group side selected ..... box ticked.
As soon as they lift sanctions we’ll be good to go.
I do hope we beat them.
Women’s cricket ... box ticked
Zim A tour .... box ticked.
U14 age group side selected ..... box ticked.
As soon as they lift sanctions we’ll be good to go.
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Googly wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:19 pm
According to unconfirmed reports we do finally have a couple of Zim A games lined up.....against Uganda.
I do hope we beat them.
Women’s cricket ... box ticked
Zim A tour .... box ticked.
U14 age group side selected ..... box ticked.
As soon as they lift sanctions we’ll be good to go.
Do you know much about the kids in the Under 14’s Googly?
I saw on twitter a kid named Dylan Dzvenga scored 180 odd against Natal a few months back, have you seen him play?
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I feel like we are concur on most points if not all, but just saying things differently.
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No I don’t know any of them, but will get up to speed in due course. The struggle for survival has left me with less time to watch cricket 😂
I did see the picture of the squad though. There’s one boy in there that’s playing the wrong sport. He’s almost as big as Hamilton, he’s a giant!!
I did see the picture of the squad though. There’s one boy in there that’s playing the wrong sport. He’s almost as big as Hamilton, he’s a giant!!
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Thats if the MD will even change. Lets hope the SRC did at least make them float job positions to the public. This is a 20k a month job in a collapsing economy. A public notice will attract the very best professionals in the country. It would also put them in a serious predicament if you do get for example andy flower against makoni. How will they justify picking him? Public perception is very important in these kind of organisations.
I personally dont believe you necessarily need a cricket person handling the books and day to day organisation. Where you need cricket people is at board level for the important decisions. The FD and MD can be seasoned professionals in their fields.
I personally dont believe you necessarily need a cricket person handling the books and day to day organisation. Where you need cricket people is at board level for the important decisions. The FD and MD can be seasoned professionals in their fields.
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