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REST IN PEACE PETER CHINGOKA

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zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:27 am


foreignfield wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:17 am

Maybe because cricket was for decades the embodiment of a racist colonial regime?


And the longer you let that bitterness embody you, the more you will never progress.

If Mandela could do it, why can we not follow suit. Cricket is now a majority black sport, ruled by blacks. How much longer are they going to live in the colonial past.

We don't love Mandela. Never have and never will! Don't let those who control the media lead you to believe otherwise. He is a cowardly traitor just like his long annointed successor leading the country right now Cyril Ramaphosa.

All that has been achieved has been inspite of him, not because of him!

If he was effective then "those people" would have turned against him, just like they turned against Desmond Tutu for 1-Proposing White Tax; and 2-Demanding more Black representation in the Springboks.

Economics aside, there is one major difference why Zimbabwean players, coaches and Administrators who are African, have struggled. It's because of their fellow brothers and sisters.

We have always thrown our weight behind all 'black' players no matter how much the media tried to destroy them: Gibbs, Langeveldt, Ntini, Amla, Tsolekile, Tsotsobe, Philander, Berhadien, Bavuma, Phehlukwayo, Loots. Every time they had a poor game alongside a white players, the media always isolated them and hammered them. It was so blantant and unapologetic (same applies to Zimbabwe if you consider how many pathetic performances the likes of Waller and Moor dished out in recent memory).

We always supported and defended our players.

Here you go through the forum and see how many times fellow brothers hammered eg a Maruma and Chari and you wonder if they stop to think what it does to those players when they visit the forum or Facebook. This is why our players have better self-esteem and confidence. They don't have self-sabotaging fans.

If you listen to some people here you would be forgiven for thinking that Craig Evans, John Rennie, Gavin Rennie and Dirk Viljoen were better players/allrounders than Elton Chigumbura and Stuart Matsikenyeri. Never! Even Timecyn Maruma has/had a higher ceiling those four!

An Andile Phehlukwayo will excel, not because he is more talented than Mluleki Nkala, Elton Chigumbura, Luke Jongwe, or William Mashinge - no ways, but it's because we love and support him. Had Vusi Sibanda received even half the love Temba Bavuma gets, it would have done him a whole lot of good! Same applies to coaches Toyana and Nkwe where Mangongo is concerned. Most of our players are Xhosa but loved by Sotho, Venda etc alike. We build, yet you guys destroy your fellowman while a 29 year old PJ Moor quietly without being droped amasses 50 ODI caps while averaging 20 at a 60SR against the likes of UAE, NED & SCO! Whereas, a Forster Mutizwa had to average 35-40 against this level of opposition, and be dropped for averaging 20 odd against the likes of NZ.

Anyway...
Legend

ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:25 am

That sounds smoky and vague without showing much d smokes.

All I took from it was white People are being racist just bucks existing in Zim.


I didn't expect you to understand.
Legend

zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:27 am


foreignfield wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:17 am

Maybe because cricket was for decades the embodiment of a racist colonial regime?


And the longer you let that bitterness embody you, the more you will never progress.

If Mandela could do it, why can we not follow suit. Cricket is now a majority black sport, ruled by blacks. How much longer are they going to live in the colonial past.


I don't disagree with what you say as you can see from the rest of my post.
ZCF OriginalLegend

foreignfield wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:35 am

I don't disagree with what you say as you can see from the rest of my post.


My post was not personally directed at you. It was a general response to the idea of sports that held colonial ties.

Like, yes cricket, and pretty much every sport, has colonial ties. That does not mean you destroy it out of spite.
ZCF Hall of Famer

foreignfield wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:32 am


ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:25 am

That sounds smoky and vague without showing much d smokes.

All I took from it was white People are being racist just bucks existing in Zim.


I didn't expect you to understand.


See the full picture, I understand better than anyone.

Cricket, a game, a hobby, a pastime, is played by people who invented it and created it ands theres nothing wrong with that. Its not racist. Leave them the f**k alone.

If some black people view the sport as a colonial symbol, and they dont like the colonial past (remember, alot of black people do), then dont play it? Dont enrol your kids.

The rest are more than welcome to play.

Its as ridiculous as people saying the German Stein is a symbol of nazism and ownership of the factories should go to Syrian refugees.
ZCF Hall of Famer
I dunno if you saw the Panama Papers? That was very interesting, huge money has been externalized, most of which would be right here and this place would be booming if it was correctly governed and there would be no gap for the Chinese to exploit. Let’s lay the blame where it’s supposed to be.

Taps you’re making out that Chingoka was a good guy, sure he may have been there when we got membership, but then look what happened. That doesn’t make him good. You’ll do the same when Mugabe departs. This whole revolutionary thing where folk claim that upheaval is sometimes necessary in order to achieve a goal only has credence if the goal is finally achieved, with the benefit of hindsight I’d say it’s all been a tragic waste of time and I question their motives and I always have. The drive for empowerment has always been based on revenge and self gain, I’ve always thought that and I’ve been proven correct. The problem is everybody that has enabled these guys, they’re to blame, and that’s basically everybody. They would rather see a wealthy black elite thriving in a mess than a white and Indian one in a functioning environment and that’s been very cleverly orchestrated over the decades. A white man can’t run a successful business here without black partners, directors and managers, I mean how racist is that? And if they’re not kept on a short rein they will take advantage of you and as a fact there’s no comeback, they will get away with it.

All those wealthy white guys on that list that make your lip curl in anger have mega wealthy black partners that have had largely a free ride, if you think that’s empowering then you need to reassess. It’s a messed up situation and is one of the main reason we’re in this economic hole that we are never ever climbing out of. Just look around you at the destruction of practically everything, there’s nobody capable of fixing it, least of all the current guys or the current opposition.
ZCF Hall of Famer
Those wealthy white guys have survived and learnt how to manipulate the system, and they dont do it directly, they need an indigenous connection.

You can approach any of them with a business idea and they will do business with you if you have the right plan. If they mess you up you have recourse. Go to any of the others and if you’re not related or don’t belong to an equally powerful family or cartel you will leave without the shirt on your back and you will have zero recourse. Fact.
ZCF OriginalLegend

TapsC wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:24 am

Like they dont have private jets, fancy houses and Porsches. You are so blinded by hate bro. Its a shame. Or maybe you just havent been around wealthy white people to see it for yourself.

Its this kind of language which makes any moderate people be like screw it if you hate Africa so much go where its perfect. I am sure they love your presence there in Austrailia Zimbos


Talk about missing the point. I never said they don't have luxuries, I said they invest back. I'll give you one example (of many that I could).

John Bredenkamp built a state of art computer centre at Prince Edward School, which has since been not looked after properly.

Mayor Wadyajena bought a 400k (which he bragged about) car and then paraded it on the streets of Harare in front of the poor masses, and then claims that sanctions are what is causing the people to starve.

I have no hate, don't be blinded to conclusions because we have differing opinions. I have travelled a lot and been around of different type of people, fortunately allowing me the opportunity to learn a lot.

Seems like you define moderate people as only those who agree with you no matter what. I can't say it's perfect in Australia, but at least I have water, electricity, looked after roads, healthcare, a job, and the police do not abuse us.
ZCF OriginalVeteran

zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:18 am


TapsC wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:24 am

Like they dont have private jets, fancy houses and Porsches. You are so blinded by hate bro. Its a shame. Or maybe you just havent been around wealthy white people to see it for yourself.

Its this kind of language which makes any moderate people be like screw it if you hate Africa so much go where its perfect. I am sure they love your presence there in Austrailia Zimbos


Talk about missing the point. I never said they don't have luxuries, I said they invest back. I'll give you one example (of many that I could).

John Bredenkamp built a state of art computer centre at Prince Edward School, which has since been not looked after properly.

Mayor Wadyajena bought a 400k (which he bragged about) car and then paraded it on the streets of Harare in front of the poor masses, and then claims that sanctions are what is causing the people to starve.

I have no hate, don't be blinded to conclusions because we have differing opinions. I have travelled a lot and been around of different type of people, fortunately allowing me the opportunity to learn a lot.

Seems like you define moderate people as only those who agree with you no matter what. I can't say it's perfect in Australia, but at least I have water, electricity, looked after roads, healthcare, a job, and the police do not abuse us.


Here you are comparing a billionaire in his 70s to a millionaire half his age then you say you are not biased. You do know there is a difference between rich and wealthy people right.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsda ... fraud/amp/

There are lots of wealthy black individuals who do so much for their communities that you have never even heard of. Dont paint everybody with the same brush. Just ask. Its like me saying certain people are all terrorists because of what I saw on TV.
ZCF OriginalVeteran

zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:18 am


TapsC wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:24 am

Like they dont have private jets, fancy houses and Porsches. You are so blinded by hate bro. Its a shame. Or maybe you just havent been around wealthy white people to see it for yourself.

Its this kind of language which makes any moderate people be like screw it if you hate Africa so much go where its perfect. I am sure they love your presence there in Austrailia Zimbos


Talk about missing the point. I never said they don't have luxuries, I said they invest back. I'll give you one example (of many that I could).

John Bredenkamp built a state of art computer centre at Prince Edward School, which has since been not looked after properly.

Mayor Wadyajena bought a 400k (which he bragged about) car and then paraded it on the streets of Harare in front of the poor masses, and then claims that sanctions are what is causing the people to starve.

I have no hate, don't be blinded to conclusions because we have differing opinions. I have travelled a lot and been around of different type of people, fortunately allowing me the opportunity to learn a lot.

Seems like you define moderate people as only those who agree with you no matter what. I can't say it's perfect in Australia, but at least I have water, electricity, looked after roads, healthcare, a job, and the police do not abuse us.


Here you are comparing a billionaire in his 70s to a millionaire half his age then you say you are not biased. You do know there is a difference between rich and wealthy people right.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsda ... fraud/amp/

There are lots of wealthy black individuals who do so much for their communities that you have never even heard of. Dont paint everybody with the same brush. Just ask. Its like me saying certain people are all terrorists because of what I saw on TV.
ZCF OriginalVeteran

Googly wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:42 am

I dunno if you saw the Panama Papers? That was very interesting, huge money has been externalized, most of which would be right here and this place would be booming if it was correctly governed and there would be no gap for the Chinese to exploit. Let’s lay the blame where it’s supposed to be.

Taps you’re making out that Chingoka was a good guy, sure he may have been there when we got membership, but then look what happened. That doesn’t make him good. You’ll do the same when Mugabe departs. This whole revolutionary thing where folk claim that upheaval is sometimes necessary in order to achieve a goal only has credence if the goal is finally achieved, with the benefit of hindsight I’d say it’s all been a tragic waste of time and I question their motives and I always have. The drive for empowerment has always been based on revenge and self gain, I’ve always thought that and I’ve been proven correct. The problem is everybody that has enabled these guys, they’re to blame, and that’s basically everybody. They would rather see a wealthy black elite thriving in a mess than a white and Indian one in a functioning environment and that’s been very cleverly orchestrated over the decades. A white man can’t run a successful business here without black partners, directors and managers, I mean how racist is that? And if they’re not kept on a short rein they will take advantage of you and as a fact there’s no comeback, they will get away with it.

All those wealthy white guys on that list that make your lip curl in anger have mega wealthy black partners that have had largely a free ride, if you think that’s empowering then you need to reassess. It’s a messed up situation and is one of the main reason we’re in this economic hole that we are never ever climbing out of. Just look around you at the destruction of practically everything, there’s nobody capable of fixing it, least of all the current guys or the current opposition.


You are 100% right here Googly. I cant disagree. A lot of people have been made wealthy whilst bringing absolutely nothing to the table. Empowerment should never be about handouts and creating an elite black minority too. I think its a generational thing. Animal Farm in real life
ZCF OriginalLegend

TapsC wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:38 am

Here you are comparing a billionaire in his 70s to a millionaire half his age then you say you are not biased. You do know there is a difference between rich and wealthy people right.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsda ... fraud/amp/

There are lots of wealthy black individuals who do so much for their communities that you have never even heard of. Dont paint everybody with the same brush. Just ask. Its like me saying certain people are all terrorists because of what I saw on TV.


Mate, you make me laugh. You always miss my points and draw other conclusions.

What does age have to do with it? If two people have the same means and do different things with it, you judge their action, not age.

I am also not denying that there are black rich people who do good. I've dealt with them. The thing for me, in Zimbabwe at least, is that the ones in a position of power do not seem to do so.

If an Australian politician drove up the streets of Melbourne tomorrow in a fancy half a mil car and bragged about his riches to everyone and then told the people who are suffering (that he is meant to serve) that it is not his fault, he'd probably be sacked within a few hours. In zim though, a wealthy politician can show off his wealth in front of a clearly impoverished people and gets away with it.

I also never said Bredenkamp was a saint. I know of his arms deals and issues he has had. My point was that he invested money back in to the school, when he did not need to.

You need to stop painting me with a brush. You are allowing whatever deep seated feeling you have against me from clouding how you understand and respond to my posts.

You literally agreed with Googly above, and yet it was the same point I was making.
ZCF Hall of Famer
I genuinely am loving this. I mean this in a sincere sense.

Some great points raised.

Although I have to laugh at the fact cricket is so far away from talking points nowadays. Like the wraaastling episode on South Park wherein it’s highlighted everything takes a backseat to the WWE theatre, and the actual wrestling is a non event, like the cricket here and politics.
Veteran
Best thread ever. Google absolutely smashing the nail on the head.
ZCF Hall of Famer
Interesting listening to Mukhulani speak at Chingoka’s funeral, he speaks well. I heard Bvute speak at Kevin Curran’s funeral and he’s an exceptional orator.

That’s the problem, these guys are smart, they’ve gotten into these positions because of it. Unfortunately they’ve use their IQ’s to surround themselves with allies, entrench themselves, manipulate intellectually inferior people and to find the loopholes.

Once again I have to mention that Mr Mugabe will get a huge send off. We sit in a wasteland of shattered dreams, the country devastated and broken beyond repair, our families scattered to the four corners of the planet and he will be called the Father of the Nation and all manner of other astonishing accolades, but of course we’re free from the colonial yoke and can vote freely for Zanu as often as we choose, if anyone thinks our cricket is any different I’d suggest they’re either directly benefiting, too young to know any different (yes it’s been that long now), or have been so brainwashed that they think it’s all been worth it. Recent events would indicate that indeed most of the current cricketing fraternity do indeed think this has all been a necessary step towards a better future and they’ve given ZC a big thumbs up. I just have to ask when they think we’re turning this mysterious corner? Know this- we’ve missed our last chance to take a different road so you’d all better hope that Mukhulani and Co are actually really good and competent guys that have been hiding their talents and good intentions in a very secret place to spring a wonderful surprise on you all. Forget all the obvious bad stuff, but if any of you think they’ve done one good thing that could not have been done hugely and significantly better I’d say you’re incredibly deluded and stupid. You see that’s the problem, people always say “well he did x,y and z!” Yes sure, but it could all have been done ten thousand times better.

Anyway you’ve all made your beds, time to lie in them.
Veteran
Probably one of the most hated man on the forum, may be one of the most controversial man to have been at the top Job of Zimbabwean Cricket Chairman.Presiding over a very tough period, was strongly rebuked during most if not all of his tenure at the top job.
ZCF Hall of Famer
He died?

Achieved a lot, did some terrible things but some good things too.

A sobering reminder of Zimbabwe’s short life expectancy (61).
Veteran
I was hoping Bvute would be next, is that too much to ask for?
ZCF Hall of Famer
He felt his cause so just that he should richly reward himself. I will read his epitaphs over the next couple of days with bemusement.
ZCF Hall of Famer
The day people stop believing that’s ok will never come.
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
RIP. I don’t think its right to speak ill of the dead so, I hope he finds peace where ever he is
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