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Dave Houghton has immediately replaced Lalchand Rahjput as Chevrons Head Coach.
Unclear if permanent or interim.
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Then again, the pope could be declared Hindu in the morning and pigs might fly..
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It's nice that Dave has spoken to Gary and Eddie, but you've got to think the chances are fairly slim. Why would county players leave security to come back to a system that could turn on them tomorrow.
Yes the WC is a lure, but the chance of qualifying for a WC goes up with these players there from the start, not after we've made it. It would also be very unfair to just walk into the side when others have done the hard work.
It needs to be made clear that these guys are coming into a system that works and is long term, not just a fly by night thing.
Yes the WC is a lure, but the chance of qualifying for a WC goes up with these players there from the start, not after we've made it. It would also be very unfair to just walk into the side when others have done the hard work.
It needs to be made clear that these guys are coming into a system that works and is long term, not just a fly by night thing.
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Sharefirst we should Target t20 worldcup. win against Ireland & Scotland is not easy. we can't beat westindies definitely. atleast. we want 4 players nickwelch, ryanhiggins, Hilton Cartwright, Dustin Melton should bring into t20 worldcup. Eddiebyroom & garyballance is test & odl players.
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That idea about having to do the hard yards in the system before getting a shot is something I disagree with. Whoever may come along has been doing the hard yards somewhere to become as good as he has, why does it matter where? Since when did ZC worry about what the players thought of anything? 😂
It implies that you have to pay penance here, which is more or less true. Plus if they make you play a year of domestic and club cricket here after what they've been exposed to, believe me you can only get worse, not better, thats the problem that wont be fixed, maybe if 10 guys come back and they can raise the standard a bit then thats different.
How many games did Miri and Munyonga play before they got a national call-up?
The penance is playing in a stop start system that organise and cancel games on a whim and more often than not waiting for months for your pittance. Aside from the national guys, and only when they're preparing for something, players here don't practice anywhere near enough to get good at anything. They'd faint if they did a quarter of what the top players do.
It implies that you have to pay penance here, which is more or less true. Plus if they make you play a year of domestic and club cricket here after what they've been exposed to, believe me you can only get worse, not better, thats the problem that wont be fixed, maybe if 10 guys come back and they can raise the standard a bit then thats different.
How many games did Miri and Munyonga play before they got a national call-up?
The penance is playing in a stop start system that organise and cancel games on a whim and more often than not waiting for months for your pittance. Aside from the national guys, and only when they're preparing for something, players here don't practice anywhere near enough to get good at anything. They'd faint if they did a quarter of what the top players do.
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Yea I agree with that.
I always think back to the Sean Ervine saga in 2011 just before the world cup. He was set to sign a new contract with the board and then join up with the squad in India. I think he pulled out lot minute due to having a bad feeling. Low and behold, two years later, the s**t hit the fan.
I always think back to the Sean Ervine saga in 2011 just before the world cup. He was set to sign a new contract with the board and then join up with the squad in India. I think he pulled out lot minute due to having a bad feeling. Low and behold, two years later, the s**t hit the fan.
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Googly wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:42 am
That idea about having to do the hard yards in the system before getting a shot is something I disagree with. Whoever may come along has been doing the hard yards somewhere to become as good as he has, why does it matter where? Since when did ZC worry about what the players thought of anything? 😂
It implies that you have to pay penance here, which is more or less true. Plus if they make you play a year of domestic and club cricket here after what they've been exposed to, believe me you can only get worse, not better, thats the problem that wont be fixed, maybe if 10 guys come back and they can raise the standard a bit then thats different.
How many games did Miri and Munyonga play before they got a national call-up?
The penance is playing in a stop start system that organise and cancel games on a whim and more often than not waiting for months for your pittance. Aside from the national guys, and only when they're preparing for something, players here don't practice anywhere near enough to get good at anything. They'd faint if they did a quarter of what the top players do.
I agree. I would definitely say that our players are getting better experience playing overseas than playing domestic in Zim.
I meant more if a player was part of a WC Qualifying campaign and ZIm did manage to qualify, then you get left out of the Zim squad for someone who just decided to come back, you'd feel hard done by, and by previous history, we could end up with more accusations of racism well and truly at the forefront, particularly from certain journos and social media types.
In saying that, I definitely don't think anyone coming back should be made to have to do their time in Zim domestic first. I would be adding Cartwright to the list. He did pretty well in BBL last season and would be a valuable asset to the T20 side. I would be bringing him in for this format
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zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:34 am
Googly wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:42 am
That idea about having to do the hard yards in the system before getting a shot is something I disagree with. Whoever may come along has been doing the hard yards somewhere to become as good as he has, why does it matter where? Since when did ZC worry about what the players thought of anything? 😂
It implies that you have to pay penance here, which is more or less true. Plus if they make you play a year of domestic and club cricket here after what they've been exposed to, believe me you can only get worse, not better, thats the problem that wont be fixed, maybe if 10 guys come back and they can raise the standard a bit then thats different.
How many games did Miri and Munyonga play before they got a national call-up?
The penance is playing in a stop start system that organise and cancel games on a whim and more often than not waiting for months for your pittance. Aside from the national guys, and only when they're preparing for something, players here don't practice anywhere near enough to get good at anything. They'd faint if they did a quarter of what the top players do.
I agree. I would definitely say that our players are getting better experience playing overseas than playing domestic in Zim.
I meant more if a player was part of a WC Qualifying campaign and ZIm did manage to qualify, then you get left out of the Zim squad for someone who just decided to come back, you'd feel hard done by, and by previous history, we could end up with more accusations of racism well and truly at the forefront, particularly from certain journos and social media types.
In saying that, I definitely don't think anyone coming back should be made to have to do their time in Zim domestic first. I would be adding Cartwright to the list. He did pretty well in BBL last season and would be a valuable asset to the T20 side. I would be bringing him in for this format
Is Cartwright actually realistic? Has the guy ever expressed interest at all?
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Cartwright would be great. He’s not coming back to the Australian team anytime soon I don’t think and he could do some serious damage in the short formats.
He would be like Sean Ervine, but better in the bat dept.
He would be like Sean Ervine, but better in the bat dept.
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slcricfan1 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:05 pm
Is Cartwright actually realistic? Has the guy ever expressed interest at all?
I would definitely say it is worth picking up the phone and starting the conversation. He is not anywhere near the Aus team. Going into a T20 in Aus, there is nothing to lose. He is already based here. He is familiar with the conditions. He is playing regularly. There is nothing to be lost
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Houghton surely won't last long if he has ideas to parachute in a bunch of white players. I can hear the cries of racism go up once Timycen Maruma is overlooked for Gary Ballance, Maruma has after all scored far more runs in the Logan Cup than Ballance.
My All-time Zimbabwe XI
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
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eugene wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:31 pm
Houghton surely won't last long if he has ideas to parachute in a bunch of white players. I can hear the cries of racism go up once Timycen Maruma is overlooked for Gary Ballance, Maruma has after all scored far more runs in the Logan Cup than Ballance.
I would like to think you are being sarcastic but with ZC this is all too real
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There are checks and ballances (see what I did there?).
Hence players have to come back and enter the system of their own accord. There's room for two and I'm sure DH would have an active involvement in recruitment up to that point. It would appear that's Ballance and Byrom. Byrom would be the tricky one because I would think he believes he's a good season away from Lions selection, and he probably is, he's a good player.
It's a bit confusing because DH's two first choices are primarily red ball players, which we play very little of internationally. Maybe he's taking a longer view and hopes we'll get more tests, but I have some doubts- they're clearly expensive to play and we are not likely to get games against the bigger teams, but I'm sure he's privy to information we aren't. Both Ballance and Byrom can play the shorter formats well, probably better than our existing guys, but they are not stand out in T20, which we are clearly going to play more of and it's becoming an increasingly important format. World wide it's the 50 over format that sadly is going to suffer.
A problem would arise if there were more than two good whites who threw away the known for the unknown. He'd understandably take a big step back from that and merely say, try and get a franchise berth and good luck out there. Admin would be beaming and their all but dead media dept would awaken from their coma.
Take a hypothetical where 4 guys arrived with their suitcases. In my view that would be a big issue. Despite the claims that they would pick the best players regardless of tribe (also an ever present issue) or ethnicity there will definitely be a saturation point beyond which those claims will be proven false and the usual hostilities will commence from all quarters. I think 4 in total in the national side and everyone is grudgingly ok with it, 5 and there's some foot shuffling and grumblings, 6 and there are howls of protest. The calamity would be akin to an American invasion.
Take another example in the bowling dept. Assume Melton arrives and he proves to be faster, more accurate and hostile than our seamers and assume Evans has had a couple of good games and can't be ignored. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that will also present a problem. There's a fine line between improving our national side and the unmentionable.
And if we did start looking like a half decent side again with some imports the view would always be to find an adequate replacement in the wings asap. We're a long way off a level playing field. It's a cycle whose amplitude will get smaller and the frequency will increase until the generation with an axe to grind are long gone.
Hence players have to come back and enter the system of their own accord. There's room for two and I'm sure DH would have an active involvement in recruitment up to that point. It would appear that's Ballance and Byrom. Byrom would be the tricky one because I would think he believes he's a good season away from Lions selection, and he probably is, he's a good player.
It's a bit confusing because DH's two first choices are primarily red ball players, which we play very little of internationally. Maybe he's taking a longer view and hopes we'll get more tests, but I have some doubts- they're clearly expensive to play and we are not likely to get games against the bigger teams, but I'm sure he's privy to information we aren't. Both Ballance and Byrom can play the shorter formats well, probably better than our existing guys, but they are not stand out in T20, which we are clearly going to play more of and it's becoming an increasingly important format. World wide it's the 50 over format that sadly is going to suffer.
A problem would arise if there were more than two good whites who threw away the known for the unknown. He'd understandably take a big step back from that and merely say, try and get a franchise berth and good luck out there. Admin would be beaming and their all but dead media dept would awaken from their coma.
Take a hypothetical where 4 guys arrived with their suitcases. In my view that would be a big issue. Despite the claims that they would pick the best players regardless of tribe (also an ever present issue) or ethnicity there will definitely be a saturation point beyond which those claims will be proven false and the usual hostilities will commence from all quarters. I think 4 in total in the national side and everyone is grudgingly ok with it, 5 and there's some foot shuffling and grumblings, 6 and there are howls of protest. The calamity would be akin to an American invasion.
Take another example in the bowling dept. Assume Melton arrives and he proves to be faster, more accurate and hostile than our seamers and assume Evans has had a couple of good games and can't be ignored. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that will also present a problem. There's a fine line between improving our national side and the unmentionable.
And if we did start looking like a half decent side again with some imports the view would always be to find an adequate replacement in the wings asap. We're a long way off a level playing field. It's a cycle whose amplitude will get smaller and the frequency will increase until the generation with an axe to grind are long gone.
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Hate that being white or black is a factor with ZC. Just be Zimbabwean, have stats/performance backing you and get selected.
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Fast bowlers get injured regularly so I don't think Evans and Melton would face too much resistance. They thought they had that department covered but the last few months have shown we need more depth there.
Ideally I think if they really did task DH with vision 2027 a lower order like this could be what we can aim for:
7-Burl
8-Evans/Wellington
9- Blessing
10- Melton
11- Ngarava
Wellington has a big role to play in the future unless Shumba really works on his bowling. At the moment he still isn't a necessity as long as Williams is still around but I doubt the current senior players will be there in 2027. I'm thinking they will retire maybe in 2024 after the t20 world cup.
This is why I also think the smart move for Byrom would be to wait until Williams and co retire. Give it a real shot out there and if you fail put yourself in a position where you can get a bumper ZC contract. Ballance is a superstar so he has nothing to worry about and I think Welch is better off here. Ballance, Welch and Melton make the most sense.
Ideally I think if they really did task DH with vision 2027 a lower order like this could be what we can aim for:
7-Burl
8-Evans/Wellington
9- Blessing
10- Melton
11- Ngarava
Wellington has a big role to play in the future unless Shumba really works on his bowling. At the moment he still isn't a necessity as long as Williams is still around but I doubt the current senior players will be there in 2027. I'm thinking they will retire maybe in 2024 after the t20 world cup.
This is why I also think the smart move for Byrom would be to wait until Williams and co retire. Give it a real shot out there and if you fail put yourself in a position where you can get a bumper ZC contract. Ballance is a superstar so he has nothing to worry about and I think Welch is better off here. Ballance, Welch and Melton make the most sense.
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Look guys, I think ZC are well aware of the reality and what is at stake. Given the status of WSL we have Afghanistan almost assured of a direct qualification, so with two of WI/RSA/SL in the frame for Qualifiers they know that with the current team it will take a miracle to qualify.
They also know that with WC qualification there comes a lot of money, sponsorship, and visibility, so as of now with the Qualifiers only an year away, I think ZC will not mind some talent coming back irrespective of their colour, as that is the only possibility of Zimbabwe having a realistic shot at WC 2023.
They also know that with WC qualification there comes a lot of money, sponsorship, and visibility, so as of now with the Qualifiers only an year away, I think ZC will not mind some talent coming back irrespective of their colour, as that is the only possibility of Zimbabwe having a realistic shot at WC 2023.
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sam_ahm wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:10 pm
Look guys, I think ZC are well aware of the reality and what is at stake. Given the status of WSL we have Afghanistan almost assured of a direct qualification, so with two of WI/RSA/SL in the frame for Qualifiers they know that with the current team it will take a miracle to qualify.
They also know that with WC qualification there comes a lot of money, sponsorship, and visibility, so as of now with the Qualifiers only an year away, I think ZC will not mind some talent coming back irrespective of their colour, as that is the only possibility of Zimbabwe having a realistic shot at WC 2023.
You have a very different view of ZC than the rest of us.
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sam_ahm wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:10 pm
Look guys, I think ZC are well aware of the reality and what is at stake. Given the status of WSL we have Afghanistan almost assured of a direct qualification, so with two of WI/RSA/SL in the frame for Qualifiers they know that with the current team it will take a miracle to qualify.
They also know that with WC qualification there comes a lot of money, sponsorship, and visibility, so as of now with the Qualifiers only an year away, I think ZC will not mind some talent coming back irrespective of their colour, as that is the only possibility of Zimbabwe having a realistic shot at WC 2023.
ZC should have been aware of this reality from 10 or 15 years back but they never learn. Streak was made a coach and was instrumental in bringing back BT and KJ. That was miracle. Yes, ZIM failed to qualify in 2018, but that was clearly a fluke.
Now they have brought in Houghton because they are desperate with 1 year to go before WC23. Should he fail, he too will be dumped. And the odds of qualification, even with Ballance, Byrom, Curran, and Welch is relatively slim IMO.
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Kriterion_BD wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:49 am
sam_ahm wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:10 pm
Look guys, I think ZC are well aware of the reality and what is at stake. Given the status of WSL we have Afghanistan almost assured of a direct qualification, so with two of WI/RSA/SL in the frame for Qualifiers they know that with the current team it will take a miracle to qualify.
They also know that with WC qualification there comes a lot of money, sponsorship, and visibility, so as of now with the Qualifiers only an year away, I think ZC will not mind some talent coming back irrespective of their colour, as that is the only possibility of Zimbabwe having a realistic shot at WC 2023.
ZC should have been aware of this reality from 10 or 15 years back but they never learn. Streak was made a coach and was instrumental in bringing back BT and KJ. That was miracle. Yes, ZIM failed to qualify in 2018, but that was clearly a fluke.
Now they have brought in Houghton because they are desperate with 1 year to go before WC23. Should he fail, he too will be dumped. And the odds of qualification, even with Ballance, Byrom, Curran, and Welch is relatively slim IMO.
Yes, agreed. If Zimbabwe make it, it will be massive for ZC.
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Kriterion_BD wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:49 am
sam_ahm wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:10 pm
Look guys, I think ZC are well aware of the reality and what is at stake. Given the status of WSL we have Afghanistan almost assured of a direct qualification, so with two of WI/RSA/SL in the frame for Qualifiers they know that with the current team it will take a miracle to qualify.
They also know that with WC qualification there comes a lot of money, sponsorship, and visibility, so as of now with the Qualifiers only an year away, I think ZC will not mind some talent coming back irrespective of their colour, as that is the only possibility of Zimbabwe having a realistic shot at WC 2023.
ZC should have been aware of this reality from 10 or 15 years back but they never learn. Streak was made a coach and was instrumental in bringing back BT and KJ. That was miracle. Yes, ZIM failed to qualify in 2018, but that was clearly a fluke.
Now they have brought in Houghton because they are desperate with 1 year to go before WC23. Should he fail, he too will be dumped. And the odds of qualification, even with Ballance, Byrom, Curran, and Welch is relatively slim IMO.
Ya we currently don't have the team to qualify and I have to agree that even if they had their wish list it would be tight.
That wish list is batters, but our bowling is not fantastic either. Its not bad, but its not good 😂 The whole unit needs to be sharp.
I think with DH at the helm we are going to see some improvements, not massive, but subtle ones. It might be enough, we'll see.
Our fielding could be improved significantly and in my opinion we lack a really good captain. Bowling changes and fielding positions we've all questioned in the past. You also ideally need a guy that leads from the front. How often has our captain, whoever he may be, had a MoM outing?
If Ballance were to appear he has big experience as captain.
That would be an interesting move and probably quite a tricky one to massage into place.
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Depends on how desperate ZC will be. Everyone deserves a second chance, even a guy like Ballance, provided they acknowledge past wrongs.
My guess is they will be desperate having missed 2 consecutive world cups.
But, one just feels Houghton will be the scapegoat if ZIM fail to qualify. Man needs at least 2 years to implement his plan.
My guess is they will be desperate having missed 2 consecutive world cups.
But, one just feels Houghton will be the scapegoat if ZIM fail to qualify. Man needs at least 2 years to implement his plan.
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