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ZIMBABWE(A) VS IRELAND, AFGHANISTAN & BANGDLADESH A

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Veteran

Opening post

IRELAND TOUR OF ZIMBABWE IN OCTOBER (3 ODIs and 1 x 4 Day Match)

Squad: William Porterfield (captain), Andrew Balbirnie, George Dockrell, Ed Joyce, John Mooney, Tim Murtagh, Andrew McBrine, Kevin O'Brien, Niall O'Brien, Stuart Poynter (for Zimbabwe only), Max SorensenPaul Stirling, Stuart Thompson, Gary Wilson, Craig Young.

AFGHANISTAN TOUR OF ZIMBABWE IN OCTOBER (5 ODIS and 2 T20s)

Squad: ???

BANGLADESH A TOUR OF ZIMBABWE OCT-NOV (2 x 4 Day Matches and 3 x List A Matches)

Bangladesh A squad: Sadman Islam, Rony Talukdar, Liton Kumar Das, Soumya Sarker, Sabbir Rahaman, Musaddek Hossain Saikat, Mahmudul Hasan, Shuvagata Hom Chowdhury, Md Mithun, Kamrul Islam Rabbi, Mohammed Shahid, Al Amin Hossain, Abu Jayed Chowdhury Rahi, Saqlain Sajib, Zubaer Hossain, Taijul Islam

Standby: Quazi Nurul Hasan, Dewan Sabbir Ahmed, Tasamul Hoque, Sunzamul Islam

MY SQUADS

ZIMBAWE vs IRELAND ODIs: Chibhabha, Mutumbami, Craig/Vusi, Hami, Williams, Chigumbura(c), Raza, Jongwe, Cremer/Nyumbu/Wellington, Panyangara, Chatara/Vitori

ZIMBABWE A vs IRELAND 4 DAY: Kasuza, Chari, Chakabva, Vusi(c), Maruma, Mutumbami(wk), Mutombodzi, Jongwe, Wellington, Vitori, Musoko (Reserves - Gupo, Chimhamhiwa, Mushangwe, Burl, Kaia)

ZIMBABWE vs AFGHANISTAN ODIs: Kasuza, Chari, Chakabva(c), Mutizwa, Maruma, Mutumbami(wk), Mutombodzi, Jongwe, Wellington, Vitori, Musoko (Reserves - Chimhamhiwa, Mushangwe, Burl, Kaia)

ZIMBABWE vs AFGHANISTAN T20s: Zhuwao, Raza, Hami, Chigumbura(c), Kaia, Jongwe(vc), Sauramba(wk), Cremer, Wellington, Vitori, Chatara

ZIMBABWE A vs BANGLADESH A 4 DAY: Gupo, Kasuza, Chari, Mutizwa(c), Maruma, Mutumbami(wk), Mutombodzi, Jongwe, Wellington, Vitori, Musoko (Reserves - Burl, Chimhamhiwa, Mushangwe, Kaia)

ZIMBAWE A vs BANGLADESH A LIST A: Kasuza, Chari, Chakabva(c), Mutizwa, Maruma, Mutumbami(wk), Mutombodzi, Jongwe, Wellington, Vitori, Musoko (Reserves - Chimhamhiwa, Mushangwe, Burl, Kaia)

I think those are the best sections possible. Ireland probably committed to coming and paying their way only if they get a full strength team for the ODIs, so they’ll get it. After that it’s the chance for the bench to shine while others take a long break and prepare for the domestic season.

Chakabva needs all the gam etime to improve his ODI game (has nothing to prove in 4 day games against Bangladesh A). Did well ni List A for Zim A in Bangladesh, but failed during the main tour and since then. As the future leader of the side he needs to lead the youngsters as often as possible, which is why it’s concerning Vusi has already been picked to lead Zim A. Hope it’s just for that 4 day game against Ireland, then he's released.

Would be nice to see Gupo in the 4 day games, Zim’s next best find in my view after Jongwe & Wellignton, and a stubborn opener. The team needs a quality opening batsman in Test, and I think he may prove to be better than Kasuza&Chari.

Vitori & Mutizwa need sustained exposure. Maruma having recovered will no doubt be brought back too.

Mushangwe is unfortunate with Wellington being the front-runner, but they should be rotated so he can share the matches with Wellington.

Masvaure unfortunate to miss out completely. Chimhamhiwa and Burl deserve to be included just for the experience. Maybe both can get a run in one of the List A/ODI matches. Along with the likes of Gumbie, Mamhiyo. Mpofu etc whom I've all excluded, they'll have chances in future. I have a funny feeling Mpofu will keep Musoko out and relegate him to this group.
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
Conscious choice that Mawoyo is not here?
My All-time Zimbabwe XI
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
Veteran
Houghton coaching Afghanistan, and Inzamam-ul-Haq coaching Afganistan means they are not hear to take things lightly.

Still I feel ZC should not be afraid. Use this tour to try the youngsters and discard some of the pretenders so chances can be given to the new generation with no one to cry unfairness.

After being emarassed by India, Bangladesh will get good experience in South Africa before going to Zimbabwe. Some of the internationals they had in India are not there but still they will be looking to do well and I think Heath Streak will be there to guide them.

I asked the Admins to merge those threads becasue it's all just speculation for now and duplicate thoughts all over, I'm confused. They can feel free to delete this and put it under the Ireland one, which is the earliest
Veteran

eugene wrote:Conscious choice that Mawoyo is not here?

Yup. I left him and Mpofu out, and like I said, would have left out Vusi as well if he wasn't already declared part of and leader of the A side to face Ireland.

You know what you'll get from those guys. Besides, Mawoyo is a little bit like Malcolm. based on form he doesn't deserve to be in there. it's wrong! Sends a bad message to the likes of Masvaure and Gumbie. Let him score some run sin th eupcoming domestic season first.

This is not because historically, I don't rate him that highly either. I believe he can still do a job at international level, plus tim eis on his side. he's still young. But he must lose weight and score runs first.

bavuma_rabada wrote:

eugene wrote:Conscious choice that Mawoyo is not here?

Yup. I left him and Mpofu out, and like I said, would have left out Vusi as well if he wasn't already declared part of and leader of the A side to face Ireland.

You know what you'll get from those guys. Besides, Mawoyo is a little bit like Malcolm. based on form he doesn't deserve to be in there. it's wrong! Sends a bad message to the likes of Masvaure and Gumbie. Let him score some run sin th eupcoming domestic season first.

This is not because historically, I don't rate him that highly either. I believe he can still do a job at international level, plus tim eis on his side. he's still young. But he must lose weight and score runs first.


Playing Devil's advocate here to see the response more than anything else.

Since you are obsessed by the right to play based on stats - Keith Dabengwa 2nd top run scorer in the Logan Cup last year.....
Veteran

GregorPJ wrote:Playing Devil's advocate here to see the response more than anything else.

Since you are obsessed by the right to play based on stats - Keith Dabengwa 2nd top run scorer in the Logan Cup last year.....

I agree with you. It's not stats per se but fairness. One could argue Tiripano & Chinouya have earned the right to play based on their many seasons of excellent returns but I left them out.

Carl Mumba for instance might also say why is Burl there yet he was comparatively more excellent, and both are still new, yet he is excluded? Thing is the seamers' roster is packed, and batsmen very few, while Chimhamhiwa although slightly weaker than he was last season, has more experiecne. I'd like to think he's faster&taller than Mumba. No?*

I mentioned Dabengwa somewhere here don't remember where. With him we have to accept that guys like Mutombodzi & Kaia are the younger batting allrounders. I've always rated Dabengwa. Playing quality cricket overseas has helped him even more. Contrary to his Logan Cup stats, if I were to stick Dabengwa in anywhere it would be in the T20 team ahead of Kaia. He can hit a long ball.

*Of that u19 group - Jongwe, Geyle, Burl, Lake, Diplock, Handirisi, Musoko, Gumbie etc; Lake & Geyle left without playing FC cricekt. Diplock&Mumba were weaker for the u19s than Musoko&Chimhamhiwa. Diplock hasn't been able to make a FC side yet, and Mumba has excelled recently, but those two are better. Jongwe has been brilliant, and Gumbie has also excelled becasue he batted higher than Burl for the u19s and succeeded just as much. But it's clear that Burl was better than Geyle&Lake, so it's no surprise that Burl too would have done better than them if they stayed.
ZCF Hall of Famer
I guess you dont want to win the Afghanistan series ??

Winning an ODI series is too precious and rare for us we must be full strength against the Afghanis otherwise they'll embarrass us like they did last time ......

I'd also like to know why it's a crime for Malcolm to be anywhere near the national side but it's ok for Maruma ?? Waller averages nearly 3 times that of Maruma in ODI cricket ???
Veteran
Radaba, have you ever played cricket before?

You forget that a number of us on here actually see these guys in action. Unlike you, we have eye witness accounts to give of these boys. You go on stats that tell half a story and in most cases don't even get put on cricinfo or whatever feed you use. Take that into account.
Veteran
Bravura Radaba is Timycen Maruma...I mean...He must be?
Veteran

jaybro wrote:I'd also like to know why it's a crime for Malcolm to be anywhere near the national side but it's ok for Maruma ?? Waller averages nearly 3 times that of Maruma in ODI cricket ???

What exactly do you know about Maruma and his career in relation to the national team?

Maruma, started out this career for the national team as a bowler, and did bowl as well as Utsyea, Lamb, Price & Cremer during those dark days of spinner atatck. That's half of his matches for the national team.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/439142.html

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/439143.html

Even if you go on his bowling stats, regardless of the fact that he hasn't bowled much in the last 2-3 years, he is probably Zimbabwe's best spinner in domestic cricket.

The point is, and I've said this before, Maruma has consistently delivered in domestic cricket, Malcolm hasn't. He is Zimbabwe's most prolific batsman in domestic cricket over the last 5 years. He deserves a consistent run as well to prove what he's all about.

Since he came back as a batsman for 8 ODIs, he has been made to bat at 3&4 for five of those, 6&7 in the other three. In his only Test against Bangladesh he was made to open! Try give me Williams, Malcolm & Craig's careers as openers, or at 1st drop in the various formats!

Stop hating on someone who hasn't had a proper chance after earning the right. None of the players in that list or left out including Mutizwa, Chari, Kasuza, Mutombodzi, Gupo, Burl, Kaia, Gumbie, Mawoyo, Mamhiyo etc deserve to be there ahead of Maruma.

Below is how Malcolm Waller has fared lately. The reality is that after coaching from Butcher, Grant, his dad, Whatmore etc plus the amount of experience he's had Malcolm should be doing better than this. Unfortunately he hasn't. What's worse is that his domestic career has been appalling yet he's still selected.

I'd love for you to reduce it to Malcolm vs Maruma, or "you hate Malcolm" but the reality is that he of all batsmen has proven that he does not belong there. This comes back to what I've said several times - "The habit of not dropping non-performing players sets a precedent. All of these players Kasuza, Maruma, Kaia etc, must also get th 70 odd matches Malcolm got too before they are dropped!"
ZCF Hall of Famer

bavuma_rabada wrote:

jaybro wrote:Just for the record Malcolm isn't in my side for me he is in the Vusi Sibanda boat, go back score a ton of runs then maybe.

He's already done that. Droped after one match(something tht didn't happen to say Craig or Coventry after their long unfruitful return). So he doesn't need to go back and score runs again. The problem with Vusi Sibanda is that they completely refuse to let him bat in his favoured position. That's the problem.


As for Maruma if he scores a ton of runs sure he deserves another chance in the end of the day if you're scoring runs the selectors can't ask anymore of you. But from what I've seen of Timmy he would be better off trying to bowl leg breaks again

That's precisely what he has done. All he needs now is to get time to prove that he's not good as you say, or good as I argue. The only difference is you deny and refuse his right to that time. ;)

NB: I really don't understand why you guys find it easier to fiercely argue why someone who has earned a right to be there should not be included, yet none of you have explained how Malcolm Waller found himself in the squad to begin with. I think that's a very concerning symptom of this forum. Some guys are even arguing with me about Diplock, yet still they haven't - without being prompted by any comment of mine - raised questions about Malcolm's presence in the first place. That's the very same thing that happened when guys came from nowhere and found themselves in the team. Even Tristan is too afraid to have his name on record against such. Such things tell a big story about this forum.


Vusi had 5 innings back in the side and didn't pass 50 so he was dropped .....

Maruma has been injured since his last failure in BD I believe ??

For the record I'd have Waller before Maruma because Waller has shown he can score runs at this level whilst Timmy hasn't also Waller is bowling agin now where Maruma isn't ...... Happy ??
Legend

bavuma_rabada wrote:NB: I really don't understand why you guys find it easier to fiercely argue why someone who has earned a right to be there should not be included, yet none of you have explained how Malcolm Waller found himself in the squad to begin with. I think that's a very concerning symptom of this forum. Some guys are even arguing with me about Diplock, yet still they haven't - without being prompted by any comment of mine - raised questions about Malcolm's presence in the first place. That's the very same thing that happened when guys came from nowhere and found themselves in the team. Even Tristan is too afraid to have his name on record against such. Such things tell a big story about this forum.


The reason is simple: People respond to the diatribes you are constantly turning out because of the way you put in them in the absolute. That you have the knack of getting under peoples' skins should not be news to you.

Stuff like Waller being picked in the squad does not get the same responses because

a) nobody starts threads about him such as "SELECT MALCOLM NOW!!!" and then goes on to argue that in some purple patch he has statistically outperformed all comers and is only kept out of the side by a sort of paternal conspiracy between his old man and AC.

b) he was a fringe selection at best -- and I for one can only shrug my shoulders

c) beyond our core batsmen the cupboard really is bare -- if we play Chari we might as well play Waller. It's the same with Vusi: He's been in squads when he was not in form and had not scored any runs in domestic cricket. Are Kaia, Mamhiyo, Kasuza or Burl any better? -- I wouldn't have minded one of them playing instead of Waller but it's nothing that sets my pulse racing.

d) neither did Mutombodzi's selection provoke an outcry when his current credentials as a spin bowler are nothing to write home about and his batting is of the "improving but not yet setting the domestic scene alight" type.

For the record: I don't think Waller deserves to be in the team.
Veteran
foreignfield there is a significant difference between stats based assertions and plucking responses out of thin air to annoy. It's natural fo rpeople to get annoyed when points that ar eraised are points they avoid out of convenience. I do not toe the line.

Thank you for mentioning Mutombodzi. He is one of those I have selected in pretty much every squad I think. That's what this is about. But I have to disagree with you there. He has done well in th elOgan Cup for a numeber of seasons, and even assumed capataincy if I'm not mistaken. I said it at the time that there are several players ahed of Mutombodzi in the bowling department.

If people were to raise any outcry it should be at Whatmore & Ziehl. How can you select Mutombodzi as a spinner ahead of Mushangwe&Wellington? That's if he was picked as a spinner not batsman(where he arguably has a case). In any case, Mutombodzi didn't bat at 8, someone else did. Hs batting therefore was as bad as anyone you can think of

Kaia, Mamhiyo, Kasuza or Burl all did well too, Kaia topping the Pro50 charts. Kasuza&Mamhiyo can keep, Kaia is a promosing allrounder, never mind his batting. So whether or not they are any better is something that can only be proven through sustained exposure same with the others. For now it's unfair opinions to say they are not good. Bear in mind that Chari did wel in domestic cricekt, and was included in ZC's development squad that's always in camp. He too deserves a similar run before conclusions are drawn.

All these players above have a justifiable case to be there in view of Zimbabwe cricket's future.

bavuma_rabada wrote:foreignfield there is a significant difference between stats based assertions and plucking responses out of thin air to annoy. It's natural fo rpeople to get annoyed when points that ar eraised are points they avoid out of convenience. I do not toe the line.

Kaia, Mamhiyo, Kasuza or Burl all did well too, Kaia topping the Pro50 charts. Kasuza&Mamhiyo can keep, Kaia is a promosing allrounder, never mind his batting.

All these players above have a justifiable case to be there in view of Zimbabwe cricket's future.


Mamhiyo can't keep. Do you just like to make things up?
Veteran

GregorPJ wrote:Do you just like to make things up?

Well at least now you're familiar with my modus operandi. ;)
Legend
I said I'd rather have one of those youngsters in the side, hhm.

The problem I have with stats from recent domestic seasons is that the absence of national team players has weakened the competition. How many wickets did Chatara and Panyangara take in the last Logan Cup, how many runs did Hami, Taylor, Raza score? Of course you can only play the opposition in front of you, and of course this hinders the development of young talent, and it is a massive problem going forward if the Logan Cup is really reduced to three matches only -- but on the other hand our proven batsmen tend to average between 60 and 80 in the Logan Cup whenever they turn up. Most of the young'uns hover in the 30-40 range (with significantly worse FC career records not even affected by Test matches), that's not exactly pushing for selection (and Waller averaging around 30 is in the same category: not pushing for selection).

I do not begrudge Chari his current status as the next batsman in line. He deserved it with gutsy performances in domestic cricket and the BD A tour (yet he looked very much out of his depth in the Tests). But what do you expect of a batsman who doesn't even average 30 in FC over a prolonged period?

And one last thing before I go: You constantly imply that "the forum" as a whole has nothing but sinister racial motives (as in racism against blacks) in everything "it" says. I do take exception to that, not only personally but also for a very large portion of this forum. I am fully aware that there are racial undertones and slurs in the posts of some forumites (more often than not provoked by you), but most of what you make out as a huge racial prejudice against black players is in truth nothing but a slight bias towards memebers of one's own community. Zimfan1 once wrote a great post about this. I must confess that I'm slightly biassed towards black African players because what first got me into Zim cricket were the Mbangwas, Olongas and Watambwas and not the Grippers, Whittals and Campbells. Believe me, I'm constantly bigging up young black players in my mind, I desperately want the Kasuzas, Mufudzas and Mumbas to dominate world cricket ... I'm still sulking from the fact that hyping up Cephas aka "The Rock" aka "The Big Bully" Zhuwao's achievements in lower level English club cricket hasn't earned him another cap 😂

But speaking of racial undertones: you might want to take a look at yourself and the way your whole thinking revolves around the racist assumption that due to the wrongs of the past a white player has to perform twice as good as a black player to be of the same worth to Zim cricket.

I know that you won't embrace this, so I'll leave it at that.
Veteran
Yah Cephas should have been tried long ago. I have him in my T20 side as you can see. :D

It would do you no harm to page through the forum pre August 2015 so glean through the non provoked comments...almost 2 years of "bliss". ;) My own similar personal exercise has left me dumbfounded.
Veteran
Matches overlap so it will be impossible to exclude seniors from the selectors' perspective, but I feel there's enough fringe players to cope without using the incumbents.

Will be interesting to see who is picked for the Afghanistan ODIs and the 4 day match against Ireland. Will Ziehl & Whatmore go for 24 "new" players in both games?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/zimbabwe-v- ... 19599.html

1st ODI: Zimbabwe v Ireland at Harare on Oct 9, 2015

2nd ODI: Zimbabwe v Ireland at Harare on Oct 11, 2015

3rd ODI: Zimbabwe v Ireland at Harare on Oct 13, 2015

Tour Match: Zimbabwe A v Ireland at Harare on Oct 17-20, 2015

http://www.espncricinfo.com/zimbabwe-v- ... 24621.html

Tour Match: Zimbabwe A v Afghanistan at Bulawayo on Oct 8, 2015

Tour Match: Zimbabwe A v Afghanistan at Bulawayo on Oct 10, 2015

Tour Match: Zimbabwe A v Afghanistan at Bulawayo on Oct 12, 2015

1st ODI: Zimbabwe v Afghanistan at Bulawayo on Oct 16, 2015

2nd ODI: Zimbabwe v Afghanistan at Bulawayo on Oct 18, 2015

3rd ODI: Zimbabwe v Afghanistan at Bulawayo on Thu Oct 22, 2015

4th ODI: Zimbabwe v Afghanistan at Bulawayo on Sat Oct 24, 2015

5th ODI: Zimbabwe v Afghanistan at Bulawayo on Sat Oct 24, 2015

1st T20I: Zimbabwe v Afghanistan at Bulawayo on Tue Oct 27, 2015

2nd T20I: Zimbabwe v Afghanistan at Bulawayo on Thu Oct 29, 2015
Veteran
I've decided HMV must be an Admin worker at ZC.

Reason: Only they could have enough time doing nothing to post so much on the forum. 😂
ZCF Hall of Famer
Ryan Burl posted on twitter " Game time! First game against Afghanistan tomorrow "

He must be in the side to play the warm up match against the Afghanis .....

Anyone else have any info on who is in the side ??

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