IRELAND TOUR OF ZIMBABWE IN OCTOBER (3 ODIs and 1 x 4 Day Match)
Squad: William Porterfield (captain), Andrew Balbirnie, George Dockrell, Ed Joyce, John Mooney, Tim Murtagh, Andrew McBrine, Kevin O'Brien, Niall O'Brien, Stuart Poynter (for Zimbabwe only), Max SorensenPaul Stirling, Stuart Thompson, Gary Wilson, Craig Young.
AFGHANISTAN TOUR OF ZIMBABWE IN OCTOBER (5 ODIS and 2 T20s)
Squad: ???
BANGLADESH A TOUR OF ZIMBABWE OCT-NOV (2 x 4 Day Matches and 3 x List A Matches)
Bangladesh A squad: Sadman Islam, Rony Talukdar, Liton Kumar Das, Soumya Sarker, Sabbir Rahaman, Musaddek Hossain Saikat, Mahmudul Hasan, Shuvagata Hom Chowdhury, Md Mithun, Kamrul Islam Rabbi, Mohammed Shahid, Al Amin Hossain, Abu Jayed Chowdhury Rahi, Saqlain Sajib, Zubaer Hossain, Taijul Islam
Standby: Quazi Nurul Hasan, Dewan Sabbir Ahmed, Tasamul Hoque, Sunzamul Islam
MY SQUADS
ZIMBAWE vs IRELAND ODIs: Chibhabha, Mutumbami, Craig/Vusi, Hami, Williams, Chigumbura(c), Raza, Jongwe, Cremer/Nyumbu/Wellington, Panyangara, Chatara/Vitori
ZIMBABWE A vs IRELAND 4 DAY: Kasuza, Chari, Chakabva, Vusi(c), Maruma, Mutumbami(wk), Mutombodzi, Jongwe, Wellington, Vitori, Musoko (Reserves - Gupo, Chimhamhiwa, Mushangwe, Burl, Kaia)
ZIMBABWE vs AFGHANISTAN ODIs: Kasuza, Chari, Chakabva(c), Mutizwa, Maruma, Mutumbami(wk), Mutombodzi, Jongwe, Wellington, Vitori, Musoko (Reserves - Chimhamhiwa, Mushangwe, Burl, Kaia)
ZIMBABWE vs AFGHANISTAN T20s: Zhuwao, Raza, Hami, Chigumbura(c), Kaia, Jongwe(vc), Sauramba(wk), Cremer, Wellington, Vitori, Chatara
ZIMBABWE A vs BANGLADESH A 4 DAY: Gupo, Kasuza, Chari, Mutizwa(c), Maruma, Mutumbami(wk), Mutombodzi, Jongwe, Wellington, Vitori, Musoko (Reserves - Burl, Chimhamhiwa, Mushangwe, Kaia)
ZIMBAWE A vs BANGLADESH A LIST A: Kasuza, Chari, Chakabva(c), Mutizwa, Maruma, Mutumbami(wk), Mutombodzi, Jongwe, Wellington, Vitori, Musoko (Reserves - Chimhamhiwa, Mushangwe, Burl, Kaia)
I think those are the best sections possible. Ireland probably committed to coming and paying their way only if they get a full strength team for the ODIs, so they’ll get it. After that it’s the chance for the bench to shine while others take a long break and prepare for the domestic season.
Chakabva needs all the gam etime to improve his ODI game (has nothing to prove in 4 day games against Bangladesh A). Did well ni List A for Zim A in Bangladesh, but failed during the main tour and since then. As the future leader of the side he needs to lead the youngsters as often as possible, which is why it’s concerning Vusi has already been picked to lead Zim A. Hope it’s just for that 4 day game against Ireland, then he's released.
Would be nice to see Gupo in the 4 day games, Zim’s next best find in my view after Jongwe & Wellignton, and a stubborn opener. The team needs a quality opening batsman in Test, and I think he may prove to be better than Kasuza&Chari.
Vitori & Mutizwa need sustained exposure. Maruma having recovered will no doubt be brought back too.
Mushangwe is unfortunate with Wellington being the front-runner, but they should be rotated so he can share the matches with Wellington.
Masvaure unfortunate to miss out completely. Chimhamhiwa and Burl deserve to be included just for the experience. Maybe both can get a run in one of the List A/ODI matches. Along with the likes of Gumbie, Mamhiyo. Mpofu etc whom I've all excluded, they'll have chances in future. I have a funny feeling Mpofu will keep Musoko out and relegate him to this group.
Discussion
ZIMBABWE(A) VS IRELAND, AFGHANISTAN & BANGDLADESH A
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I take it Vusi Sibanda's absence might also mean he will play against Ireland then.
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jaybro wrote:
Could Sean Williams' presence in the team be hurting Wellington's chances of making the side ?
I think definitely, even if he hasn't been getting wickets they have been giving him the overs of a full time bowler. He bowled quotas of 9, 10 & 10 is the Pakistan series for a total of 29 overs which was the most of any bowler in the series.
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Players per side 15 (11 batting, 11 fielding) - so Moor will bat and Nyauchi will bowl either way.
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I remember this Noor Ali Zadran guy once punished Zmbabwe. Not even Maruma could stop him. :D
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icccont2010 ... 15165.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icccont2010 ... 15165.html
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bavuma_rabada wrote:I remember this Noor Ali Zadran guy once punished Zmbabwe. Not even Maruma could stop him. :D
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icccont2010 ... 15165.html
From that same tournament: http://www.espncricinfo.com/icccont2010 ... 38897.html
Craig Ervine scored 177
Timycen Maruma scored 16
Now let's hear why Maruma is a better batsman than Ervine.
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brmtaylor.com admin wrote:From that same tournament: http://www.espncricinfo.com/icccont2010 ... 38897.html
Craig Ervine scored 177
Timycen Maruma scored 16
Now let's hear why Maruma is a better batsman than Ervine.
I've already provided these same stats for Craig Ervine and we had this discussion. If you had any questoins you should have asked then. I showed you that Craig Ervine's FC record was inflated by games against Associates but his record strictly in the Logan Cup is extremely poor. All th emore reason why I say it's possible for some of thes eplayers with 20 odd averages strictly for the Logan Cup (just like Craig Ervine) can also get chances against sides like Ireland & Afghanistan etc to score big and get into the national squad based on those stats.
Nonetheless, at that time Maruma was a bowler primarily, everybody here knows that so don't play ignorant. Yet, he was still on par with Craig Ervine's batting in the Logan Cup (Craig does not bowl by the way) despite being a tailender - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... tournament
You can see for yourself that Maruma was way ahead of every other bowler internationals or non-internationals, spinners or seamers, Cremer, Utseya, Rainsford & Price included. He bowled half the load Cremer toiled, but almost twice as effective, just to put you into perspective that he was deadly. - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... tournament
Anyway, in the same Intercontinental Cup you refer to Maruma is clearly a bowler - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/icccont20 ... tournament
Once again, stop reducing this to a Craig Ervine vs Maruma thing. I posted that for Noor Ali Zadran. I did not even talk about Taibu's brilliance in that match.
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Inflated by matches against associates? Are you kidding?
Which teams from that Intercontinental Cup do you consider to be weaker than Logan Cup teams?
Which teams from that Intercontinental Cup do you consider to be weaker than Logan Cup teams?
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brmtaylor.com admin wrote:Inflated by matches against associates? Are you kidding?
Which teams from that Intercontinental Cup do you consider to be weaker than Logan Cup teams?
You're arguing the wrong point completely. I said Craig Ervine's career FC average is completely different from his Logan Cup average.
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bavuma_rabada wrote:
brmtaylor.com admin wrote:Inflated by matches against associates? Are you kidding?
Which teams from that Intercontinental Cup do you consider to be weaker than Logan Cup teams?
You're arguing the wrong point completely. I said Craig Ervine's career FC average is completely different from his Logan Cup average.
It was you who said his average was inflated by matches against associates. I'm trying to find out exactly which teams you think are inflating his average?
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So I'm confused who is stronger Logan Cup teams or associates ??
Would Bavuma and Rabanda please explain ?
Would Bavuma and Rabanda please explain ?
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jaybro, BRM is just being stubborn and probably playing sarcastic game.
This thread is about 20+ players. Many of them can only be judged on Logan Cup stats, because Zimbabwe hasn't been having the privilege of A tours as was the case years ago - when Associates were even weaker than now 6 years later.
Most of you guys say they can't be used because their Career Averages are low. I say granted, but the Logan Cup is a tough place too - Mupariwa, Chinouya, Mpofu, Shingi etc coming at you, and later the likes of Mushangwe, Mutombodzi, Mugava etc. Plus the occasional internationals - Ali, Horton, Wadlan, Mickelburg etc. As well as the poor pitches which favour bowlers - seam or spin depending.
No one is disputing that Associates are stronger than Logan Cup franchises, but the reality is a lot of Craig's runs came against them. Instead of selecting a Moor who scores a 100 against probable-possible, if Masvaure gets a big ton against Afghanistan then he too can play for Zimbabwe which is exactly what happened with Craig - poor in Logan Cup but got a number of big scores against some Associates and was selected. ;)
A lot of you guys forget that Craig's average was at some point closer to 50. The fact that it's come down to 35 - due to the Logan Cup and a little bit in Tests, proves that the Logan up has been tough. He only average 23 in Tests. No 50 or 100 in 14 innings - most of them in the low middle order, which makes it even worse. Many of that young post rebel generation fared better than him against much stronger bowlers then opening the batting or playing in th etop 4. So in truth Craig is not Test quality.
This thread is about 20+ players. Many of them can only be judged on Logan Cup stats, because Zimbabwe hasn't been having the privilege of A tours as was the case years ago - when Associates were even weaker than now 6 years later.
Most of you guys say they can't be used because their Career Averages are low. I say granted, but the Logan Cup is a tough place too - Mupariwa, Chinouya, Mpofu, Shingi etc coming at you, and later the likes of Mushangwe, Mutombodzi, Mugava etc. Plus the occasional internationals - Ali, Horton, Wadlan, Mickelburg etc. As well as the poor pitches which favour bowlers - seam or spin depending.
No one is disputing that Associates are stronger than Logan Cup franchises, but the reality is a lot of Craig's runs came against them. Instead of selecting a Moor who scores a 100 against probable-possible, if Masvaure gets a big ton against Afghanistan then he too can play for Zimbabwe which is exactly what happened with Craig - poor in Logan Cup but got a number of big scores against some Associates and was selected. ;)
A lot of you guys forget that Craig's average was at some point closer to 50. The fact that it's come down to 35 - due to the Logan Cup and a little bit in Tests, proves that the Logan up has been tough. He only average 23 in Tests. No 50 or 100 in 14 innings - most of them in the low middle order, which makes it even worse. Many of that young post rebel generation fared better than him against much stronger bowlers then opening the batting or playing in th etop 4. So in truth Craig is not Test quality.
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bavuma_rabada wrote:Instead of selecting a Moor who scores a 100 against probable-possible...
I agree, Moor has wracked up the runs against formidable opposition and deserves to be selected for higher honours.
My All-time Zimbabwe XI
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
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hhm wrote:I showed you that Craig Ervine's FC record was inflated by games against Associates...
hhm wrote:No one is disputing that Associates are stronger than Logan Cup franchises...
That doesn't make any sense.
As a side note, you complain about players being included in teams with no form or matches behind them - tell us who Maruma has scored runs against this year? He's in virtually all of your desired squads so he must have scored runs against someone.
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BRM that makes perfect sense. Warne has played 64 FC matches but 43 of those are Tests.
Now apply that to Craig Ervine, except:
Tuskers - 12Matches, 467Runs, 25.94Avg, 0Hundreds, 3Fifties
ZImbabwe XI - 4Matches, 451Runs, 75.16Avg, 2Hundreds, 1Fifty
Zimbabwe - 7Matches, 286Runs, 23.83Avg, 0Fifties, 0Hundreds
Poor in the middle order Logan Cup, poor in the middle order for Tests, world beater against Canada!
Due to those knocks agianst Associates, he got a place in the side and voila did well in ODIs fo ra little while. But by and large he's been found out, and found out badly which has been evident since his undercooked return. Ran away from being dropped by Zimbabwe & the Tuskers to go to Europe. Failed there, came back and Campbell gave him a pass without having to earn it via the Logan Cup.
Ok. No more questions about Craig Ervine. Go look him up in the other thread where I gave you all the stats, but I'm not discussing him any further in this context. This is not about Maruma vs anyone (bowling-Cremer, or batting Craig), just about Maruma alone.
Beside Craig Ervine hit a wonderful century two months, so unlike Hami, him and Williams won't be dropped for another 12 months no matter badly they do! That's the only thing that counts to me right now.
Now apply that to Craig Ervine, except:
Tuskers - 12Matches, 467Runs, 25.94Avg, 0Hundreds, 3Fifties
ZImbabwe XI - 4Matches, 451Runs, 75.16Avg, 2Hundreds, 1Fifty
Zimbabwe - 7Matches, 286Runs, 23.83Avg, 0Fifties, 0Hundreds
Poor in the middle order Logan Cup, poor in the middle order for Tests, world beater against Canada!
Due to those knocks agianst Associates, he got a place in the side and voila did well in ODIs fo ra little while. But by and large he's been found out, and found out badly which has been evident since his undercooked return. Ran away from being dropped by Zimbabwe & the Tuskers to go to Europe. Failed there, came back and Campbell gave him a pass without having to earn it via the Logan Cup.
Ok. No more questions about Craig Ervine. Go look him up in the other thread where I gave you all the stats, but I'm not discussing him any further in this context. This is not about Maruma vs anyone (bowling-Cremer, or batting Craig), just about Maruma alone.
Beside Craig Ervine hit a wonderful century two months, so unlike Hami, him and Williams won't be dropped for another 12 months no matter badly they do! That's the only thing that counts to me right now.
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Beside Craig Ervine hit a wonderful century two months, so unlike Hami, him and Williams won't be dropped for another 12 months no matter badly they do!
😂 😂 😂
That's your efficient well run oiled ZC you love to defend so much :W: Too much rope???
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bavuma_rabada wrote:BRM that makes perfect sense. Warne has played 64 FC matches but 43 of those are Tests.
Now apply that to Craig Ervine, except:
Tuskers - 12Matches, 467Runs, 25.94Avg, 0Hundreds, 3Fifties
ZImbabwe XI - 4Matches, 451Runs, 75.16Avg, 2Hundreds, 1Fifty
Zimbabwe - 7Matches, 286Runs, 23.83Avg, 0Fifties, 0Hundreds
Poor in the middle order Logan Cup, poor in the middle order for Tests, world beater against Canada!
Due to those knocks agianst Associates, he got a place in the side and voila did well in ODIs fo ra little while. But by and large he's been found out, and found out badly which has been evident since his undercooked return. Ran away from being dropped by Zimbabwe & the Tuskers to go to Europe. Failed there, came back and Campbell gave him a pass without having to earn it via the Logan Cup.
Ok. No more questions about Craig Ervine. Go look him up in the other thread where I gave you all the stats, but I'm not discussing him any further in this context. This is not about Maruma vs anyone (bowling-Cremer, or batting Craig), just about Maruma alone.
Beside Craig Ervine hit a wonderful century two months, so unlike Hami, him and Williams won't be dropped for another 12 months no matter badly they do! That's the only thing that counts to me right now.
Craig Ervine is a class player. He is consistent, and that 130 not out was one of the best innings played by a Zim player. That's how good players finish up the game. Hami, Williams and Ervine should play as many games for Zim. After Taylor these are the decent players we have. I wouldn't mind dropping Chigs or Raza, but dropping the above three players is an utter stupidity.
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zimbofan88 wrote:I wouldn't mind dropping Chigs or Raza, but dropping the above three players is an utter stupidity.
You would drop Elton&Raza but keep Craig Ervine? 😂 😂 😂
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bavuma_rabada wrote:
zimbofan88 wrote:I wouldn't mind dropping Chigs or Raza, but dropping the above three players is an utter stupidity.
You would drop Elton&Raza but keep Craig Ervine? 😂 😂 😂
Ervine did just score 130 against NZ and another 100 in the probables v possibles match 😂 😂 😂
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😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
My All-time Zimbabwe XI
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
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