Andy Flower, black armband article - The Times

ZIMDOGGY wrote:Andy is not a God though, and the protest itself wasnt about the farming situation alone, all of africa. tHIS HUFF DUDE WAS JUST AN INSPIRATION AS ITS A FRIEND TO FLOWER.

Dont overthink things...

Flower wanted to make a stand, he got his backup plan in order (henry should have done the same this isnt andys fault.. maybe he just didnt see the heavyness of it all at the time) he invited henry to go with him, did not force him... henry did because he had the backbone to make a stand against akiller president.

his fiancee is a slut but for not standin by him. that isnt love. she should have loved him more and made the sacrifice. she would have won and been in england now.

They are both heroes and remain so.

Henry is his own man. Clearly he was not press ganged into it. To portray him as a weak man (I was once a weak man) who was easily led by Andy Flower does him a great disservice and, in its own way, is a rather colonial attitude.

aydee wrote:
I knew I shouldn't have started this thread... :(

Sadly some people are now determined to turn this into a newzim forum. I'm amazed at how easily politics legitimately finds itself in a cricket forum. And that's the problem, cricket and politics are now intertwined. The country needs to find a way of separating them.

ZIMDOGGY wrote:whereas from what i can see olonga is actually seemingly a clever cookie.

First of all, you're sick in the head!

Secondly take Coltart for example. He is not only young, but a lawyer. Articulate to some degree. His since proven anything but intelligent, as well as an insult to his profession. Very soon he will be a case study among his future fellow professionals!

Finally Andy was willing to look out for other young players, but not Olonga. Victor has already said he should have advised him better. He used Henry to advance his selfish gain, and has now gained acclaim at Henry's expense. Clearly, If Henry wasn't part of it, he wouldn't received the same recognition. That's what it is, that's what it looks like.

Don't try and spin by saying our opinion is colonialist. Go and tell that to his brother Victor who gets highly emotional about the subject.

ZIMDOGGY wrote:well said zimfanatic

in all due respect to both the fact that hhm and bayhaus here were taking about olonga like he was a lost little girl being told to do can be interpreted as a bit racist in its own right...as if he is a poor black man who can't think. whereas from what i can see olonga is actually seemingly a clever cookie. Flower doesnt deserve criticism purely to the fact he had an escape route planned.

That's what I picked up from all this without even reading too much into it. This was my first time hearing Andy flowers account of all this, and some of the facts of the balck armband event, when it happened I wasnt even interested because it was at a time when we used to discuss a lot politics and what was happening in Zim and what could be done, and when I heard of this armband I honestly facepalmed. These are the exact things that didnt work in our circumstance and would get a few days international recognition and then forgotten. And back to business as usual. And that's what happened. What would have really irked the Govt was not so much the message to the World and the expose Teh world knew what was happening in ZIm - (The Govt would give them the finger (sorry) It was the fact that a black person dared to connive with a white person to discredit 'the gains of the liberation struggle' (thats how it will be spun and justified) Thats why Andy could go back into Zim (the govt let him, if they wanted him they would have got him) and Henry couldnt.

Anyway those were my thoughts after hearing that interview.

Jemisi wrote:Treating a man who made his own decision as being a pawn incapable of making their own decision is paternalistic. Zimfanatic is right.

My arguement is that the decision was not informed and critical information for you to make a a good decision and have the full scope of the issue was withheld. He made his own decision based on what he was told and how he was told.

Jemisi wrote:Sure, granted, but still any grownup could see the situation in the country and that taking a stand would be costly.

In terms of what you have said about the strategic impact of such a move, you may be right, but that doesn't mean Henry doesn't deserve praise.

Maybe I I may have put it wrong somewhere. Having the guts to do that is worthy of note for sure. For me that was without question. What I didnt agree with is what I perceived as Andy's motive and Henry's naivity.

In all this, what is lost is the purpose of the protest i.e. death of democracy. It seems that means the right to protest, especially if you are a black man is still lost.

hhm wrote:

ZIMDOGGY wrote:whereas from what i can see olonga is actually seemingly a clever cookie.

First of all, you're sick in the head!

Hey !!!

That is bang out of order.

I have had my fair share of run ins with ZIMDOGGY (which I have enjoyed) but sick in the head he is not.

I admire your passion and your strength in your views. Do not undermine that by needless ad hominems brah.

Zimfanatic69 wrote:

hhm wrote:

ZIMDOGGY wrote:whereas from what i can see olonga is actually seemingly a clever cookie.

First of all, you're sick in the head!

Hey !!!

That is bang out of order.

I have had my fair share of run ins with ZIMDOGGY (which I have enjoyed) but sick in the head he is not.

😂 Not in that sense. Anyway, It's for another thread, he knows it.