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who are the most TALENTED zimbos?

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Opening post

Taibu? Unless we're talking wicketkeeping only, definitely not batting! Barner Rogers is exactly like AC, and seeing as you excluded AC, I doubt you'd have included him. There's no way someone who can't play straight, ondrives and use his feet can be termed naturally talented! I like him and said so in one of the threads, but guys are misleading you about Barney! My picks:

BATSMEN: Vusi, Matsi, Williams(despite unjustified hatred from certain sections of this forum, it takes nothing away from him being arguably the most naturally talented bat to emerge from Zim), Grant(the more talented sibling, except he lacked his brother's productivity), Vermeulen, Craig Ervine, Coventry

BOWLERS: Streak, Cremer(no doubt we struck gold, but our mining rights are still missing), Vitori, Panyangara(somehow many here forget the young man who introduced himself to world cricket),Watambwa, Paul Strang(how on earth could you possibly forget him), Hondo(injury, opportunites&age deprived us of the only seamer since Streak who stood a chance to be a top 10 bowler, albeit T20s&ODIs only!)

ALLROUNDERS: Elton, Blignaut, Sean Ervine(I may hate him for different reasons now, but I fell in love with him at first sight)

If you ask me to pick one, I'd have to say Brian Vitori! I don't rate him, and want him nowhere near international level for another two seasons, but in terms of pure natural talent, I haven't seen any other Zim player(batting or bowling) with the goods like him. Vusi worked hard over the years to qualify his natural talent, but he wasn't as good as a young/raw Matsi&Coventry for the most part! A couple of batsmen can easily rank

Unfortunately a lot of 90s/white era players we had, there was no natural talent to speak of - Guy included! Most of them have countless times admited so themselves, or of their peers!


eugene wrote:Sean Williams is probably the most talented batsman we have, Craig Ervine would be next.


With you, sometimes I wonder if it's simply preference or sticking to a script! At least a couple of players can easily rank alongside or higher than Williams, but even Craig is ahead of them! :? I guess they don't form part of that script!
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
With Williams and Ervine I was referring to current players.
My All-time Zimbabwe XI
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
Veteran

eugene wrote:With Williams and Ervine I was referring to current players.


I knew that. Still!
Veteran

eugene wrote:Sean Williams is probably the most talented batsman we have, Craig Ervine would be next.


i would class these two in the same category - those who cannot just value their wicket. AC was the same and currently Matsi falls in this class too. I always knew Williams was going to hit a few good looking runs ... but not make a massive score! I also liked Rogers when he came on the scene ... don't remember being blown away but thought he played hard

Anyway, natural talent i can remember some youngsters who were fantastic at colts level. I remember trev Madondo as an 11 year old and it was obvious he was going to be special. The same can be said of AC [I had a 'sponsored' year at lilfordia as a kid] where these guys, and if i remember correctly, Neil Fereira played too though he wasn't - at that time anyway - in the same class as TM and AC. From all the time i've watched I suppose AC had the most natural talent (well worked on by the old man) which, becasue he was so loose with it, is my reason for disliking him as a cricketer!
Veteran

hhm wrote: Sean Ervine[/b](I may hate him for different reasons now, but I fell in love with him at first sight)!


the truth is when he played for Zim he was in a different class. I beleive that he meant it when he played for his county but despite what everyone here says about it being a job ... he never looked the same cricketer who went to Aus and played SO well for Zim.
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
I think the thing about the Ervines and Williams, Rogers too was that they always made one feel they would score runs, Goodwin was like that too. As opposed to some of those like Chibhabha, Matsi, Dabengwa, Cephas, who always make one surprised if they get any.
The Third Innings
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
The difference with Taylor, Hami, Sibanda, is that they score regularly and are able to go on with it rather than just making a 27 or so.
The Third Innings
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
Sean Ervine really seems to be a shadow of his former self. When he was playing for us in Australia he really looked like one of the few worldclass players we have ever produced.
My All-time Zimbabwe XI
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
Veteran

Jemisi wrote:I think the thing about the Ervines and Williams, Rogers too was that they always made one feel they would score runs, Goodwin was like that too. .


mmm I never felt confident that these guys would get runs. Goodwin yes, but he really is a little apart from the other three - he's proven himself everywhere. I never saw Houghton but imagine he inspired some confidence of runs ... Andy Flower did .... for a short while Taibu did ... these days it's Taylor (although i probably wouldn't say i'm 'confident' about that either)
Veteran

betterdays wrote:

Jemisi wrote:I think the thing about the Ervines and Williams, Rogers too was that they always made one feel they would score runs, Goodwin was like that too. .

mmm I never felt confident that these guys would get runs. Goodwin yes, but he really is a little apart from the other three - he's proven himself everywhere. I never saw Houghton but imagine he inspired some confidence of runs ... Andy Flower did .... for a short while Taibu did ... these days it's Taylor (although i probably wouldn't say i'm 'confident' about that either)


How can you lump those guys with Goodwin! In the end we didn't(or haven't) see enough of Sean, Rogers, Craig & Williams! Looking at Sean, and how Craig has tailed off - there is little evidence, even in their records, to substantiate this high acclaim. Yet somehow the very same people who form these opinions somehow find ways to 'justifiably' rate them higher than the likes of Vusi & Matsi! :?

Ok, Sean was good, and so is Williams&Craig, but unlike Vusi, Matsi & Hami who were thrust in as openers at every opportunity but still did ok, those three(like Malcolm Waller now), were protected away from the top three, and stil didn't do comparatively much better from that softer midle to lower middle order!. Even Barney Rogers would be surprised at just how overstated his stocks are here :!:
Veteran

hhm wrote:Watambwa was a gem! :D


Yeah, i've heard and read so ... am very sorry not to have seen him. followed his overs on cricinfo and the like but it ain't the same...


hhm wrote:But I suppose if you include a schooled type bowler like Muzhange, then we have different understandings of natural talent. !


Well, natural talent after u15 is questionable anyway as they'll all have had some schooling. You point ot Olonga whom i know had some cricket schooling at Plumtree... there were Gumbos and Gumedes who had more natural talent but Henry had something more - athleticism that was raw but which could be shaped ... Muzhange looks like he's been moulded similarly.


hhm wrote:[In the end all this is personal view betterdays.


absolutely it is ... but like all things it's important i'm right :D (or at the very least we clear up criteria) 😂


hhm wrote:Along with Hondo, Friend always looked effortless and on holiday.


also true, though Friend did not always bowl that fast - he was taken apart by Sachin becasue he didn't seem to be getting it much above 127/8, Hondo could get a bit of swing and he did look unschooled but was a little slow to break into top 10 and stay there i think ... in any case things conspired against him and only supposition is left
Veteran
I know it's not the same, but if you must know betterdays, even a blind man could see how supremely talented Watambwa(&Olonga) was: :D


Dean du Plessis wrote:"Taibu, we all know what a good cricketer he is, Olonga, well, he was an injury-prone cricketer, but I tell you what, when he was on the park he was special. As was Watambwa, although his work ethics you had to question, his heart wasn't on the game, he had other things on his mind. But he was a seriously talented cricketer, Brighton's talent came naturally, he didn't even have to work on it, and the list is endless."


As for Hondo and his top 10 prospects - think Nathan Bracken&Tsotsobe(to whom keepers stood/stand up to as well)! Why not Hondo? He had the goods as well! A bowler who could deliver under all conditions. True, only suposition is left. Such a shame to think that this young man last payed for Zim in an ODI 7 years ago, at just 25 years of age. Not a bad way to sign off your Test career either. What a talent wasted! Seldom 'mourned' to that degree, but among bowlers he's surely the nation's greatest loss in my view!
Veteran

hhm wrote:I know it's not the same, but if you must know betterdays, even a blind man could see how supremely talented Watambwa(&Olonga) was: :D


i've never had a bad word to say about Watambwa becasue i did follow games - and punditry - closely but as much respect as i have for Dean's observations i don't see how he can rate 'natural' talent without seeing :?:

I suppose with Doug it's a feeling - but you're right, Bracken never looked good enough for a top 10 spot and managed it. on the other hand Lopsy -as someone pointed out- has an advantage of height so along with other aspects of his bwling the bat has to think about lift, which puts many bats in difficulty. Actually, we've produced many a good bowler and douggy was up there... that article makes many points i've felt for a while about development and the youngsters now have their work cut out if they're to withstand the rigours of top flight cricket. but the talent (as the article states too) is defiitely there and the likes of Chatara and Muzhange are cases in point
Veteran

betterdays wrote:... that article makes many points i've felt for a while about development and the youngsters now have their work cut out if they're to withstand the rigours of top flight cricket.


Funny that those are the very principles some of these former players or coaches stood by, yet Butcher&Streak tried to perform unnecessary miracles instead! Even though we had the personnel already! Yes, it's too late for that now! No one will be dropped!


betterdays wrote:as much respect as i have for Dean's observations i don't see how he can rate 'natural' talent without seeing

I feel better viewing that as a joke instead! Brighton looked ready-made, you didn't have to see him to believe it I guess. His presence was so pervasive&striking that a lack of adequate vision was no obstacle! 😂
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and now hes unemployed in belgium...

and olonga is a myth, the guy only bowled 135/km/hr
Veteran

ZIMDOGGY wrote:....and olonga is a myth, the guy only bowled 135/km/hr

ZIMDOGGY, I wouldn't be surprised if you said Nehemiah Odhiambo & Thomas Odoyo of Kenya, were not capable of consistently hitting 88mph/142kph! Why, even Elton showed many times when he was younger and injury free that he could consistently bowl over after over of 140+kph deliveries!

Do you see medium-fast or fast-medium in Olonga's Cricinfo profile - by Cricinfo staff, or does it simply say fast? And what class of bowlers do you see with the tag fast? To what purpose would it serve the coaches to instruct him to "bowl all out" if he was just a 135kph bowler? Does that make sense to you? Stop hating ZIMDOGGY!

On various occasions he cut back on speed for control, shortened his run up which affected his pace, remodelled his action, was injured or had just recovered form injury, and we all know how much his injuries affected him. Unfortunately he didn't play in the 96WC, but was consistently a 144-148kph bowler between 95-98 up to that famous Pakistan Series! Terms such as fearsome pace, and fiery burst were used to describe him! Unless the bowler is hitting the upper 140s, it would be stupid to make such statements! You may have watched him from the 99WC onwards, when he was in the 140-145kph range at most. By then he had regressed in speed, plagued by injuries!

Henry Olonga is by far and away Zimbabwe's fastest EVER bowler - bar none!

We all know Blignaut could bowl the odd fast one, but Hondo is in the 140s for the 2003 World Cup.
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
That is officially your best post :D
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