Sibanda's NZ tour in doubt?

"Madness" is the word that keeps cropping up if this is true. Let's be prepared as ZCF to put as much pressure on ZC if this thing is allowed to happen. ZCF members in NZ should go to the ground with placards, and this should happen wherever in the world the team plays. Embarrass them as administrators as they are embarrassing us as fans. I'm already fuming. :x

Happy new year to u all! This is exactly what Zim does not need. he should not have been allowed to go in the first place. Well the trade offs continue, this does not surprise me at all I expect it from ZC. These are power struggles. But this does not do well for the morale in the team. Takes us back to WC and that dreaded Coventary experiment. NZ dont have to play any mind games on our players we have ZC to do that, thats why before a Zim series you never hear our opponents say they are targetting so and so cos we have ZC to do that for them. if Vusi does not play then we can surely expect some drama after the NZ tour...

This is all a bit insane, I personally don't see what the problem with not playing in Zim is. I mean it's not like our FC is the best in the world (not terrible either, just not so great to be THE only standard)

Besides if I were ZC I would be happy, player gets better and different experience which can only benefit us, and he also makes a bit of money (a hugely understated necessity which ZC seems to be struggling to give)... Except if because of going away the player rules himself out of national duty....which isn't the case here... So from all angles I don't see a problem at all.

Besides truely and legally speaking Vusi hasn't broken any rules...had he signed for Rhinos (which apparently he didnt) then reneged, then he'd have a case to answer, but he didn't breach any contract he exercised his right to seek alternative employ without jeopardizing his national duty availability....where is the problem then? Except if this a personal vendetta...Vusi refused to sign for Rhinos ...hence let's fix him....vindictive and frankly childish but more importantly disappointing.

hhm...isms are terrible...be they racism (BOTH forms) or tribalism...and Zim seems fixated with them...I know racism (both types) were there before although much better now, as for tribalism I have no evidence to support or refute, but would like to think the fact that Vusi, Chris and Njabulo would be enough to dispel that notion and I can't think of a "Ndebele" named player that is better that the current players.

Connant you normally are reasonable but your last outburst has a few holes in it. Vusimizi (incorrectly slept I may add...should be Vusumuzi ...meaning raise a home...literally but meaning raise a clan/family) is as Ndebele as they come that combined with the Sibanda surname leave little ambiguity. The fact that he was born in Highfield and speaks Shona won't change his Ndebele links. A bit like saying because Brian Mujati or Wesly Mbanje being born in Bulawayo makes them Ndebele which is not true..

Bottom line gents (hhm and Conant) I believe his tribal affiliations should not (frankly I don't see it) cricketing rating...he is a class player and should be rated on just that and right here right now he is being treated unfairly period.

FlowerPower wrote:This is all a bit insane, I personally don't see what the problem with not playing in Zim is. I mean it's not like our FC is the best in the world (not terrible either, just not so great to be THE only standard) .

Conant has a vaguely legitimate point here though I think...the problem with not playing in Zim is that everyone with a little skill and opportunity to go abroad may do so and that would leave the domestic FC system all the poorer. They should be encouraged to stay but one can hardly enforce it without, as you say, "scoring an own goal". In any case, the main thing is they should have been open with him beforehand (maybe they were and he decided to 'hear' Butcher's assurances only - we're in the dark as usual)

betterdays wrote:

FlowerPower wrote:This is all a bit insane, I personally don't see what the problem with not playing in Zim is. I mean it's not like our FC is the best in the world (not terrible either, just not so great to be THE only standard) .

Conant has a vaguely legitimate point here though I think...the problem with not playing in Zim is that everyone with a little skill and opportunity to go abroad may do so and that would leave the domestic FC system all the poorer. They should be encouraged to stay but one can hardly enforce it without, as you say, "scoring an own goal". In any case, the main thing is they should have been open with him beforehand (maybe they were and he decided to 'hear' Butcher's assurances only - we're in the dark as usual)

Is Taylor's case very different - or what?

betterdays wrote:
Is Taylor's case very different - or what?

Which is precisley the point, isnt it? The fact is, of all important days in the calendar, Vusi chose to turn his back on this one. Like somebody said, it was ill-advised; and like somebody also said maybe he was told it would not be wise but chose to ignore it. All this is conjecture so there is no point in dwelling on it.

FlowerPower wrote:
Connant you normally are reasonable but your last outburst has a few holes in it. Vusimizi (incorrectly slept I may add...should be Vusumuzi ...meaning raise a home...literally but meaning raise a clan/family) is as Ndebele as they come that combined with the Sibanda surname leave little ambiguity. The fact that he was born in Highfield and speaks Shona won't change his Ndebele links. A bit like saying because Brian Mujati or Wesly Mbanje being born in Bulawayo makes them Ndebele which is not true..

Outburst? Im my sentence I don't think there was barely any emotion in there, just sentiment. So because I dared to differ with rest of the forum my sentiments are labelled an outburst? This time it is you who has lost the plot FlowerPower.

FlowerPower wrote:
Bottom line gents (hhm and Conant) I believe his tribal affiliations should not (frankly I don't see it) cricketing rating...he is a class player and should be rated on just that and right here right now he is being treated unfairly period.

I agree, his worth should be measured only by what he brings on the table. In any case without anyone really knowing proof exactly what tribal affiliation Vusi is, (if it should matter an iota at all!!) -- though his name and surname indeed strongly suggest a Ndebele link -- all this is a moot point, and I don't think it was right that hhm intimates tribal connotations or prejudices when there has been no proof or suggestions of such. Better still, it is an argument that I should have stayed well clear of -- its does not have substance until it is proved otherwise!!

Conant wrote:

betterdays wrote:
Is Taylor's case very different - or what?

Which is precisley the point, isnt it? The fact is, of all important days in the calendar, Vusi chose to turn his back on this one.!!

I genuinely don't know why, if VS is being questioned, Taylor is not ... but one of us is misinformed because I thought Vusi was at the training - while Taylor was not - and, like Taylor, available for selection! It's difficult to see what he's done wrong really

Conant wrote:Outburst? Im my sentence I don't think there was barely any emotion in there, just sentiment. So because I dared to differ with rest of the forum my sentiments are labelled an outburst? This time it is you who has lost the plot FlowerPower.......I agree, his worth should be measured only by what he brings on the table. In any case without anyone really knowing proof exactly what tribal affiliation Vusi is, (if it should matter an iota at all!!) -- though his name and surname indeed strongly suggest a Ndebele link -- all this is a moot point, and I don't think it was right that hhm intimates tribal connotations or prejudices when there has been no proof or suggestions of such. Better still, it is an argument that I should have stayed well clear of -- its does not have substance until it is proved otherwise!!

my apology maybe "outburst is an inappropriate term"....my bad...accept my apology...what I should have said was I disagree with your line of thought as to your conclusion as to Vusi's tribal linage....and also glad we agree the tribal linage is a moot point...

betterdays wrote:Conant has a vaguely legitimate point here though I think...the problem with not playing in Zim is that everyone with a little skill and opportunity to go abroad may do so and that would leave the domestic FC system all the poorer. They should be encouraged to stay but one can hardly enforce it without, as you say, "scoring an own goal". In any case, the main thing is they should have been open with him beforehand (maybe they were and he decided to 'hear' Butcher's assurances only - we're in the dark as usual)

I somewhat agree and also disagree. I agree with better players leaving our FC does weaken, but I believe the Ballances, Ervines and Wessels (if paid and welcomed) will gladly plug the gaps, I also think your Irelands and Camerons will also be more than happy to pitch in, yes many in these nick of woods will not like them but few will argue with the quality they bring on board, forget their misdeeds for a while. I disagree with binding Vusi, Taylor and any other who may want a different experience elsewhere, as long as this does NOT temper with their availability for national duty...and besides there is always a young talent waiting in the wings, and there are plenty of experienced players such as Hondo, Ewing, Dabengwa, Duffin, Matsikenyeri who probably will not want to wander off that much.

I just dont get this wanting to slave-like fixation of tying everyone down.

But without beating around the bush, I suspect its all an ego trip, Vusi didnt sign up for the T20, and chose to go to Australia, and hence "lets fix the little *@!***..." that's my conspirancy theory, if true, then these are very SMALL men we are dealing with

Zimdoggy is quite right in highlighting that Zim, just like other Full Members, is entitled to enforce such rules and make an example of Vusi, and if consistency will be maintained I'm personally for that move.

BRM, while Taylor may be playing in a "higher league", and also participated in our T20 competition, the fact is Vusi was scheduled to play more Grade cricket games but chose to come back seeing as he was announced to be part of the camp, Taylor on the other hand being captain, is away from from camp. As a result I'm in agreement with betterdays when he questitions Vusi's case being treated differently. Afterall, despite turning down a domestic contract, Vusi has been playing for Zim all season, to the point of returning prematurely while still grieving the loss of his mother, and has been the best batsmen for Zim across all formats and series!

However, FP&Conant, to deny that tribalism exists is akin to assuming that if Zim had: Sports Min-Aeneas Chigwerere; Selectors-Makoni(Convener), Mutendera&Nkala; Coaches-Hondo, Maregwede & Mawhire; Media Liason-Tich Mataz, instead of Coltart, AC, Mutendera, Rennie, Butcher, Heath, Grant & Manthorp respectively, then the ICC would have 'allowed' us to resume Tests, Aus would have still graced us with a long tour of their A team, while NZ would've been itching to tussle with us in our backyard!

Fact is, if this was Elton or Prosper, I doubt it would've been an issue! Throughout history the south of Zim has always provided the national team with more quality seamers, regardless of race or ethnicity: Mbangwa, Heath, John Rennie, Olonga, Nkala, now Mpofu, Meth & Ncube! The presence of Mpofu and Sibanda in the national team doesn't hide the fact that bias exists, and will always exist! Your denial is a clear sign that you don't belong to the minority. Regarding my view of it where Vusi's situation is concerned, it's not proven, but relevant!

FlowerPower wrote:
my apology maybe "outburst is an inappropriate term"....my bad...accept my apology...what I should have said was I disagree with your line of thought as to your conclusion as to Vusi's tribal linage....and also glad we agree the tribal linage is a moot point...

Apology accepted :) , and yes I think ego trip might be a very appropriate term here

FlowerPower wrote:[

But without beating around the bush, I suspect its all an ego trip, Vusi didnt sign up for the T20, and chose to go to Australia, and hence "lets fix the little *@!***..." that's my conspirancy theory, if true, then these are very SMALL men we are dealing with

Surprise, surprise... I get a most unexpected ally in zimdooggy!! :o

ZIMDOGGY wrote:I don't think it is that at all.

Zim just enforcing their own border protection policy and rules are rules, whether it's sibsnda or simon mugava. Australia and all the other countries I can think of do the same.

If we allow all our stars to play anywhere during Logan season- then it creates the real potential of the Logan cup being resigned to even more of a Mickey mouse league than it is.

Fringe players, seasoned vets, you name it will be jetting for overseas holidays under the guise of cricket, or a young player like pj moor might go to Ireland and get "tapped up" as he gets to know the people there. Next thing you know the biggest star of the domestic scene will be matsi.

All this would be minimized with these rules. Although I think there should be some flexibility.

brmtaylor.com admin wrote:hhm, I think you might have only read my first sentence ;)

Yes the HRV Cup is of a higher standard - but it's the perception that matters most. It gives more legitimacy to Zimbabwean cricket if a player is selected to play for a First Class side in New Zealand than a district side in Sydney.

Didn't think it would altr my argument much, but I did the read it, and I agree with you wholeheartedly! Perception matters, unlike Taylor, Vusi's going to a provincial 50over&Twenty20 competition(no matter how rewarding and competitive it may be), at the expense of our FC, ListA & T20, certainly undermines Zimbabwe cricket, not to mention his worth!

Zimdoggy all well to prosecute based on RULES. In a lawful society you make the rules then apply the rule. Vusi is being tried on nonexistent rules. Vusi refused to sign for our T20. The coach didn't have a problem with it. ZC said nothing. So I assume despite not being palatable for ZC it was above board. (see bayhaus' conspiracy 4 thread).

Hhm As I said without evidence it's difficult to say it's a case of tribalism I did not categorically dismiss it. Tribalists in Zim exist...in abundance, but we need to be careful not to label everything involving a persecuted group as an ism...note I don't rule it out and having lived in Bulawayo for a huge chunk of my life I know it is real and horrible. But Taibu who is Shona has also suffered at the hands of the same people. I think this is a simple case of a vindictive regime trying to scare all into line.