[Match Thread] West Indians vs Zimbabwe A

Looking at a team like Bangladesh in the absence of Tamim pushed everyone up the order and opened with Kayes and Liton in their first ODI against SA recently. With the young debutant Saifuddin coming in at lowly 8. But in Zimbabwe "palm face" we don't mind sending a fresh faced Chari or Maruma for that matter to open with Raza sitting at 6/7. It all sounds a lot like sink or swim to me.

To be honest the pressure of batting at 7/8 might be worse than playing uptop in modern one day cricket. Maybe test cricket but the shorter formats see fresh kids having to chase 70 from 40 balls these days. Burl was playing down the order and it didn't suit him in high pressure situations. Also if you play for a team like Zimbabwe you might find yourself batting at 7 but it's 60/5 and the pressure might be too much for a new kid. In the end it all depends on your style of play and the format.. Tari can play down the order coz he naturally accelerates. Burl is probably better opening.

Number 7 needs a special talent who can adjust his game to suit the challenge the team is facing. Raza is perfect for that role. He can dig in. He can accelerate. Number 8 should be a bowling all rounder. Not this nonsense we are trying to do.

Also I think it would be ridiculous for a new kid to decide where he wants to bat in a truly competitive team. You play wherever there is a gap and work your way to where you want to go. So if senior players don't want to open then you need to put your hand up and make the spot your own until you have enough clout to decide where you want to bat. Look at Mire. He probably isn't a natural opener but he saw the huge hole in the team and took his chance. As he plays more games and becomes more important he can then decide where he really feels comfortable. Also if seniors don't want to finish a game then you need to practice your big hits and get in the team. It's all about seeing gaps and taking opportunities otherwise you can be a 12th man for 5 years

tawac wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:19 am
Looking at a team like Bangladesh in the absence of Tamim pushed everyone up the order and opened with Kayes and Liton in their first ODI against SA recently. With the young debutant Saifuddin coming in at lowly 8. But in Zimbabwe "palm face" we don't mind sending a fresh faced Chari or Maruma for that matter to open with Raza sitting at 6/7. It all sounds a lot like sink or swim to me.

Zimbabwe's cowardly trio could learn a thing or two from 23 year old Muthusamy. Again he did play for SA Emerging against Zimbabwe recently.

Currently he opens the batting for his franchise and still bowls plenty overs of spin.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8877 ... es-2017-18

Internationally, he batted at 3 in 50 over games, and at 4 in FC games. In fact, all the best SA Emerging batsmen that toured batted at the top in positions 1-4! Young Yaseen Valli had a tough time as opener, but despite having authority as captain, he resisted the temptation to drop himself down the order when he saw lesser middle order batsmen feasting on ZIM A's inferior change bowlers for easy centuries.

I don't care what inclinations are, Craig should be opening for Tuskers together with one of Raza/Williams and the other one at first drop. It's ridiculous for Williams to be batting at 4 and Raza at 5 in ZIM's FC competition.

Brendan Taylor batting at number four - behind former bowling allrounders Mire, Prince and serial failure Chapungu - against rookies, was scandalous!!!

It's pretty clear that batting in the middle order in ZIM generally results in better scores. Once again, statistically Mutumbami and Maruma have dominated the Logan Cup for several seasons now. That is definitely not an accident. Equally, Mawoyo and Duffin have low averages despite being very competent Test batsmen is not accident. Even Keith Dabengwa and Mutombodzi have had a nice time doing better than them. ZIM has got excellent FC new ball bowlers, but very weak in bowling depth.

It's no wonder that these bowlers are never selected for internationals, while plenty middle order batsmen have played for ZIM in the past few years.

I disagree with Jarvis, Panyangara and Cremer playing for Rhinos, as well as Chatara and Shingi playing for Mountaineers. For a while Tuskers didn't have the batting to set the kind of totals to defend, but Raza, Williams and Craig is now an overkill. Still they will struggle against Goats and Rhinos.

The sad fact of the matter is - when the Logan Cup is at full strength - for Rhinos and Goats they will be on holiday for all but one fixture.

The only player in the top 10 Logan Cup batsman right now who is an opener is Chapungu, largely thanks to rookies and a weakened Goats attack(minus Chatara and Shingi their new ball pair). Middle order players are guaranteed high averages. Especially if they are half good. Don't be surprised to see Mutumbami and Maruma top the Logan Cup again!

When you witness the long struggles of poor form Raza, Williams, Moor and Malcolm have had - resulting in embarrassing losses for Zimbabwe - fans think they should be doing better, but the reality is they are on average failing against the opposition's 3rd or 4th best bowlers. If you think about it, the only time they really get to perform against top bowlers for long periods is in the nets when Chatara and Panyangara bowl to them. When Roach, Gabriel, Cummins and Joseph run through ZIM's "top order", how can we expect them to resist their 2nd spells when they've been routinely fed a diet of Nathan Waller and Prince Masvaure?

I think I've followed ZIM cricket about as long as anyone else here. Sean Williams used to bat at number 3, and arguably he was the best batsmen in ZIM then, because he was being challenged by the best in ZIM cricket from Blignaut, Friend, fit&fast Elton, Hondo, Rainsford etc, plus a lot of the then top A team bowlers from other Full member countries. Today the guy can barely put together a solid innings in a live rubber and looks ugly to watch batting - how many times do commentators mistake Williams for Malcolm Waller. Well, guess what, the same thing happened to Charles Coventry. From being one of the best 15/16 year old classy young openers and top batsmen in the country, to being a mindless slogger like Cephas.

It actually makes sense for our national team batsman to be bating in the top four of their respective franchises so that they get a proper work out whist the bowlers are still fresh. It can only benefit the country when they are called up for the national team.

aydee wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:34 pm

pariah wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:15 am

Burl

Chakabva(c)

Chari

Kasuza

Musakanda

Murray(wk)

Jongwe

Mashinge

Wellington

Chikomba

Mumba

RESERVES: Innocent Kaia, Mpofu, Mavuta, Ngarava[/b]

This isn't that bad a team. You would have thought that Kasuza and Chari would open though. Having played against them, there are 2 players that you are overrating here. Firstly Nkosana Mpofu. He clearly does have the temperament for opening, and thinks about his game, but he is simply a very limited player. Not much talent. Would be way out of his depth in internationals. Secondly, Chikomba. There is a reason that Mufudza gets picked for the Eagles ahead of him. He's accuracy leaves a lot to be desired. Anyway, with Wazakadza already in your team, you'd want an offie or a leggie.

Chakabva is the senior and has to open, particularly when he's free of keeping duties. He has the technique, plus he's done well opening for ZIM A/XI. He is after all the best ZIM batsman 30 years and under. I doubt the likes of Musakanda and Burl will turn out to be better. Kasuza has a lot of experience across formats so just might make it.

I'll take your word for it on Nkosana and Chikomba. My solution to that is to drop Chikomba and bring Mutombodzi not just into the squad, but straight into the XI to bat ahead of Jongwe. It lenghtens ZIM's batting.

Burl

Chakabva(c)

Chari

Kasuza

Musakanda

Murray(wk)

Mutombodzi(vc)

Jongwe

Mashinge

Wellington

Mumba

Alternatively Timecyn Maruma is an option, but I imagine with Burl and Chakabva falling away in the ODI side, he would come in as captain of that side. I think Moor will be the other replacement, and hopefully he will have figured out how to bat in ODIs by then.

Regarding what you said, Chari and Kasuza simply don't have the skills to open in Tests. I think Innocent Kaia might.

What's your opinion on Gupo? I've seen ZIM's top bowlers fail to get him out in their opening spells. I think he's got his defense right, maybe needs a bit more coaching on how to accumulate more runs and not to lose his patience when he still can't score runs after being at the crease for a very long time.

tawac wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:13 pm
It actually makes sense for our national team batsman to be bating in the top four of their respective franchises so that they get a proper work out whist the bowlers are still fresh. It can only benefit the country when they are called up for the national team.

I hate that they bat so low in international cricket but that's the coach, selectorsand captain's prerogative for whatever reason.

But at the very least in domestic cricket they should bat as high as possible.

I sympathise with Kasuza, because Mawoyo, Vusi and Hami have all been in the top 4. Maruma bowled, while Mutizwa kept, so he only had one spot to bat, and did bat lower with Vusi opening with Mawoyo and Hami at first drop.

The beauty about Mountaineers is tha when Vusi and Hami are not there, Kasuza(and Kaia) still bat high with Maruma and Mutizwa moving a place up.

At the Tuskers Craig will never move up if the opener is injured or dropped for form etc. Same applies to Taylor and Mlacolm at Rhinos.

How often did we see Dabengwa open and bat ahead of even Sean Williams. That's embarrassing!

I don't understand how guys here can even defend some of these batsmen cowardice plus shy away from criticising them for not stepping up even if there is a genuine need in domestic cricket.

brmtaylor.com admin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:43 pm
Everyone knows you are taking the mickey when you're mentioning Test cricket and Innocent Kaia or S Gupo in the same breath.

At least with Maruma you need two hands to count the number of centuries he's scored.

I don't understand your comment. In any case I can't reconcile it to anything I posted. What exactly are you on about?