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Zimbabwe cricket in familiar strife again

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ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer

Opening post


ZIMDOGGY wrote:not kidding when i say i always love hhms input


Stop feeding the trolls.
My All-time Zimbabwe XI
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
Veteran

eugene wrote:

ZIMDOGGY wrote:not kidding when i say i always love hhms input


Stop feeding the trolls.


That is rather unfair.

hhm is always interesting to read.
ZCF Hall of Famer
I'm not sure there is such a thing as white elitist schools, there appears to be a predominance of black elitist students enrolled in them from what I can see. Times have changed, and I would suggest that the white parents probably struggle to pay the fees more than their black counterparts in most instances.

I think there were 11 first league clubs registered at the end of last year, of which 5 had their own grounds, I stand to be corrected on the exact numbers, but it's thereabouts. On a couple of occasions teams with no grounds failed to pitch for games and points were shared.

One game at Takashinga resulted in a sharing of points because the covers were inadequate during a shower. The players at these clubs appear to swop around at will, especially to play stronger teams. Nothing that I am aware of stops high density players joining existing sports clubs and getting the cricket sections up and running again and resurrecting great facilities that are lying neglected. Having 6 strong teams is infinitely more preferable than 11 mediocre ones, plus of course there are the second teams. It would be much easier to organize and run efficiently and would result in a much higher standard of cricket. If some players were unable or unwilling to contribute towards membership fees then perhaps ZC and/or some of the Corporates could assist. Cricket costs money, there's no escaping it and why should more than half the teams not have to contribute anything? Pitching up at a well prepared ground when it suits and literally getting a free lunch is a poor show and only marginally preferable to a no-show. The current format is not of a first league standard and needs to be changed and run much more professionally.

That whole issue of Flower and Streak not going to West Indies is ridiculous. I'll guarantee that most of the team are not happy about it but are not prepared to say anything. I'm also willing to bet that at least one member of the ZC hierarchy pitches up for nothing more than a free holiday. I'll be following up on that and will be the first to apologize if I am wrong.

Your racial rhetoric serves to perpetuate an already sad situation. We have fallen light years behind the rest of the big cricketing nations, with absolutely no chance of ever bridging the gap (ever!!) because of people such as yourself. In fact you sound more like a policy maker than an amateur blogger. I sincerely believe that if all the whites stepped back you would get on your soap box and blame the next set of problems on the fact that they had opted out, it seems the whites are perpetual scape goats, particularly if they have a different opinion and dare to voice it. There are plenty of black guys that agree with my sentiments but dare not go on record because they will incorrectly be labelled as Uncle Toms. We are doomed to failure.
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer

Googly wrote:I'm not sure there is such a thing as white elitist schools, there appears to be a predominance of black elitist students enrolled in them from what I can see. Times have changed, and I would suggest that the white parents probably struggle to pay the fees more than their black counterparts in most instances.

I think there were 11 first league clubs registered at the end of last year, of which 5 had their own grounds, I stand to be corrected on the exact numbers, but it's thereabouts. On a couple of occasions teams with no grounds failed to pitch for games and points were shared.

One game at Takashinga resulted in a sharing of points because the covers were inadequate during a shower. The players at these clubs appear to swop around at will, especially to play stronger teams. Nothing that I am aware of stops high density players joining existing sports clubs and getting the cricket sections up and running again and resurrecting great facilities that are lying neglected. Having 6 strong teams is infinitely more preferable than 11 mediocre ones, plus of course there are the second teams. It would be much easier to organize and run efficiently and would result in a much higher standard of cricket. If some players were unable or unwilling to contribute towards membership fees then perhaps ZC and/or some of the Corporates could assist. Cricket costs money, there's no escaping it and why should more than half the teams not have to contribute anything? Pitching up at a well prepared ground when it suits and literally getting a free lunch is a poor show and only marginally preferable to a no-show. The current format is not of a first league standard and needs to be changed and run much more professionally.

That whole issue of Flower and Streak not going to West Indies is ridiculous. I'll guarantee that most of the team are not happy about it but are not prepared to say anything. I'm also willing to bet that at least one member of the ZC hierarchy pitches up for nothing more than a free holiday. I'll be following up on that and will be the first to apologize if I am wrong.

Your racial rhetoric serves to perpetuate an already sad situation. We have fallen light years behind the rest of the big cricketing nations, with absolutely no chance of ever bridging the gap (ever!!) because of people such as yourself. In fact you sound more like a policy maker than an amateur blogger. I sincerely believe that if all the whites stepped back you would get on your soap box and blame the next set of problems on the fact that they had opted out, it seems the whites are perpetual scape goats, particularly if they have a different opinion and dare to voice it. There are plenty of black guys that agree with my sentiments but dare not go on record because they will incorrectly be labelled as Uncle Toms. We are doomed to failure.


Great post.
My All-time Zimbabwe XI
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani

Googly wrote:I'm not sure there is such a thing as white elitist schools, there appears to be a predominance of black elitist students enrolled in them from what I can see. Times have changed, and I would suggest that the white parents probably struggle to pay the fees more than their black counterparts in most instances.

I think there were 11 first league clubs registered at the end of last year, of which 5 had their own grounds, I stand to be corrected on the exact numbers, but it's thereabouts. On a couple of occasions teams with no grounds failed to pitch for games and points were shared.

One game at Takashinga resulted in a sharing of points because the covers were inadequate during a shower. The players at these clubs appear to swop around at will, especially to play stronger teams. Nothing that I am aware of stops high density players joining existing sports clubs and getting the cricket sections up and running again and resurrecting great facilities that are lying neglected. Having 6 strong teams is infinitely more preferable than 11 mediocre ones, plus of course there are the second teams. It would be much easier to organize and run efficiently and would result in a much higher standard of cricket. If some players were unable or unwilling to contribute towards membership fees then perhaps ZC and/or some of the Corporates could assist. Cricket costs money, there's no escaping it and why should more than half the teams not have to contribute anything? Pitching up at a well prepared ground when it suits and literally getting a free lunch is a poor show and only marginally preferable to a no-show. The current format is not of a first league standard and needs to be changed and run much more professionally.

That whole issue of Flower and Streak not going to West Indies is ridiculous. I'll guarantee that most of the team are not happy about it but are not prepared to say anything. I'm also willing to bet that at least one member of the ZC hierarchy pitches up for nothing more than a free holiday. I'll be following up on that and will be the first to apologize if I am wrong.

Your racial rhetoric serves to perpetuate an already sad situation. We have fallen light years behind the rest of the big cricketing nations, with absolutely no chance of ever bridging the gap (ever!!) because of people such as yourself. In fact you sound more like a policy maker than an amateur blogger. I sincerely believe that if all the whites stepped back you would get on your soap box and blame the next set of problems on the fact that they had opted out, it seems the whites are perpetual scape goats, particularly if they have a different opinion and dare to voice it. There are plenty of black guys that agree with my sentiments but dare not go on record because they will incorrectly be labelled as Uncle Toms. We are doomed to failure.


Too true, White elite schools such as St George's have less than 10% whites at the school,
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
The Uncle Tom attack has been fired recently here.
The Third Innings
ZCF Hall of Famer

Jemisi wrote:The Uncle Tom attack has been fired recently here.


Sorry, not sure what you mean by this?
Veteran

Googly wrote:I'm not sure there is such a thing as white elitist schools, there appears to be a predominance of black elitist students enrolled in them from what I can see.

Nothing that I am aware of stops high density players joining existing sports clubs and getting the cricket sections up and running again and resurrecting great facilities that are lying neglected. If some players were unable or unwilling to contribute towards membership fees then perhaps ZC and/or some of the Corporates could assist. Cricket costs money, there's no escaping it and why should more than half the teams not have to contribute anything? The current format is not of a first league standard and needs to be changed and run much more professionally.

That whole issue of Flower and Streak not going to West Indies is ridiculous. I'll guarantee that most of the team are not happy about it but are not prepared to say anything. I'm also willing to bet that at least one member of the ZC hierarchy pitches up for nothing more than a free holiday. I'll be following up on that and will be the first to apologize if I am wrong.

Your racial rhetoric serves to perpetuate an already sad situation. We have fallen light years behind the rest of the big cricketing nations, with absolutely no chance of ever bridging the gap (ever!!) because of people such as yourself. In fact you sound more like a policy maker than an amateur blogger.

I see maehara has activated a registration (i.e. unleashed a bull terrier). 😂 Welcome to the ZCF Googly! Yours any better than Cremer's? :D

Times have changed and so they should. I was referring to the oversight and service delivery for the public school system which has been privatised. I'll attribute your response to a failure to understand what I said.

I agree when you say that there are neglected facilities which can be better utilised. Plenty of government High Schools and Primary schools, had facilities which ZC built. They were to be shared with clubs in the area. I for one know of a few clubs in Bulawayo which shared them with the school. It's up to Coltart and his ETT to ensure they are maintained for use by the community. Of course players have to do their best to pay subscription fees for things like refreshments for themselves and the visiting team as well as match balls when you're hosting. I'm sure bats, pads and helmets can be shared, and cheap whites are what you put on.

Parent support is crucial. The fact of the matter is the current generations, which will become future parents for club cricketers, are the ones who will provide it in future. It's hard for current parents to do so, since they are still in the education-to-appreciate phase as far as their relationship with the sport is concerned. Something our sad colleagues in this forum(hopefully not yourself) define as 'blacks don't care about cricket'. Therefore, by and large it's impossible to help those who can't afford transport fees, and other basics, unless there is a corporate sponsor, but sanctions have killed our industries, while a lot of those companies who are there have their reasons for not helping black clubs apart from the recession.

Once again, the minutes show Elton as one of those who said they prefer the technical team to be restricted to a Head and his assistant coach. I'd like to think a lot of other players agree with him. Minutes back that up, what backs up your view? The suppression myth? In any case, players, just like any other professional, aren't supposed to speak to me, you or the media. They are supposed to speak to their employers.

By the way, why aren't white people's thoughts, that are vigorously in opposition to views like mine not considered radical or rhetoric? But then again, the same could be asked why a democracy is sold as something superior to an autocracy(while those in power everywhere continue to behave like dictatorships), why the right is considered correct as opposed to the left, west-east, capitalism-communism and so forth and so forth... Anyway, 6 of the 7 billion people on the planet are on my side of thought so I'm in pretty good company. The same applies to 70% of the other Full members ;) .

We may be years behind but so are the 100 plus other countries. What counts is whether Zim will be a Full Member or not, cricket will, in 10-20 years grow into a sport which the majority take seriously and attend its domestic matches on weekends, just like football. Which is something I can't say for #1 Proteas.

You probably suffer from the small mind mentality which dictates that cricket only becomes a sport at international level. Well, if 5,000 plus regularly watch the Tuskers, or another Franchise in Matabeleland(same in Mashonaland and other provinces) then that's success. If we're #15 in the world then no worries, we'll still be happy playing internationals with our Nigerian, Kenyan, Ugandan and soon to be liberated Namibian & South African brothers - just like the Africa Cup of Nations :D . Break away T&T, Bermuda, and a lot of the other overseas Intercontinental Cup teams will provide occasional international cricket. If Eng, Aus, Ind, plus Ire & Netherlands are added to that elite group of 8, then fine! Zimbabweans will still be playing and watching cricket - at school, amateur or semi-professional!
ZCF Hall of Famer
Serious questions:


hhm wrote:... but sanctions have killed our industries...


The sanctions that killed agriculture were self imposed...

But besides that, which sanctions? And how were these sanctions more severe than Rhodesian era sanctions?


hhm wrote:Once again, the minutes show Elton as one of those who said they prefer the technical team to be restricted to a Head and his assistant coach. I'd like to think a lot of other players agree with him. Minutes back that up, what backs up your view?


Which minutes? Please provide a link to the minutes. Again, this is a serious question. I genuinely might have missed seeing them. What I have seen was a statement from the media liaison to this effect. But all that suggested was that players were involved in a discussion on the streamlining of the coaching structure. That doesn't mean that the players knew that the specialist coaches and the fitness trainer would not be touring any more. "Streamlining" could mean virtually anything.
Veteran

brmtaylor.com admin wrote:The sanctions that killed agriculture were self imposed...

Nope. Brought about by bitter liers. Several books have been written, and objective views written. Rhodesia is irrelevant. It's an evil which should never have happened and has no merit in any discussion, or the propping up of any point. Unless of cause you agree with Apartheid.


That doesn't mean that the players knew that the specialist coaches and the fitness trainer would not be touring any more. "Streamlining" could mean virtually anything.

Employers don't need the approval of even 1% of it's employees or top management to implement it's decisions. What counts is that the players were aware of the recommendation made when Kevin Curran was still alive, and the potential of it being put into action:


According to minutes of that meeting, Campbell asked the players if there was unity within the camp and Taylor said the team was not pulling in the same direction.

- Houghton also asked if the players felt the coaching staff had differences, which both Utseya and Taylor confirmed.

- Chigumbura felt the structure was too big adding that he preferred to work under a coach and assistant only.

- Houghton explained that there was no harmony in the team. It is understood there are factions within the team and players take instructions from their preferred coaches. There are players who choose to listen to Streak only, which is why the former captain has fallen victim.

- It is against this background that the committee recommended a technical structure with a head coach, assistant coach, analyst, physiotherapist, fitness trainer and a manager to be appointed on a tour by tour basis.

That's already been quoted elsewhere. Did you read it?
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
No, good you are not trying to learn holocaust from the Nazis, if the Crocodile was that efficient heaven help us.

But the point was about working your way around sanctions. If the Rhodesians managed to do it with far fewer resources, it would behove Zim to have tried it under the onerous sanctions of the last ten years. Sitting back and crying helpless is not a great way to look after your people.
The Third Innings

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