ZCF Tough Guys Award

Current tough guys

Mawoyo ( always willing to dig in rarely plays a dumb shot to get out )

Cremer ( his batting we all know about and even know he hasn't bowled well lately he still gets through a lot of overs on flat decks )

Tiripano ( much like Cremer his digs in with the bat even when the top and middle order give it away and he bowls all day on flat decks for little reward but remains consistent)

Madziva ( has won the 'big moments' to deliver victories for Zimbabwe which is rare for the current bunch who seem to buckle under the slightest bit of pressure )

I feel the rest of the side are mentally weak, although I don't want to put young guys like Moor, Jongwe and Wellington in that crew as they haven't proved themselves either way .....

As for former players the list would be so long .....

Moor is tough, proved it with this knock here. Wellington we don't know, he hasn't be tested.

Jongwe though I can tell does not have it in him, based on what we've seen of him so far. If he drastically improves his game it may be a different call on him.

You can tell ? Cmon Kriterion you're better than that :D

I actually think he has shown toughness by stepping up to open the innings once or twice when his older and more experienced team mates could have. Also he was given the new ball and death bowling duties at such a young age and doesn't go missing even when the bowlers went after him .....

pffft,

Jongwe is rubbish.

Another 125 bowler that gets the odd thirty.

Seriously you'd be better with Tiripano doing his role.

Yes, we are so desperate that we might want to classify one gutsy effort as toughness. Cremer has produced this sort of performance multiple times in the last year or so. His partnership with Hamilton vs Afganistan was another high pressure knock. Tiripano has made it a habit to guts it out. Moor has now played two such knocks in a row - but he has to show that more consistently over the coming days. These three are definitely ahead of others when it comes to playing tough, for a decent length of time.

Waller wishes to be like that, but his technical deficiencies let him down time and again. Madziva has held his nerve a couple of times to win us games, but mental toughness to play long knocks / bowl long difficult spells is a different thing altogether. What he has shown is calmness under high pressure bursts, not toughness regularly yet. Jongwe is nowhere in this equation. The guy has to grow up and take responsibility for his acts and be a better role model first.

Jaybro look at Jongwe's stats and the teams he's played against. Bangladesh is strongest team he's had to face and his numbers are still mediocre. Off the top of my head I'm gonna guess 40 average, 5.50 econ.

5.5 is not bad if he's had to bowl at the death, but im not sure he has consistently been tasked to close out the innings.

Apart from the numbers I've watched the kid play. I didnt see anything with bat or ball.

But I can tell you Mumba looks different. You mentioned KJ and Chatara in the other thread. Mumba is better than Chatara. Chatara had some pace, bowled a nagging line outside off, but he'd still struggle to take wickets.

KJ was the most gifted red ball quick in the entire post 2004 era. His white ball skills? Mediocre, and thats being generous. But his red ball skills were top shelf.

Its not about what you're willing to do but what you actually do.

We could judge Moor and say he should open instead of Chari instead of hiding at 7. But that would spit in the face of a truly remarkable innings when the team was done and dusted.

Context is key.

eugene wrote:Actually Anil Kumble was a tough bugger. I remember him bowling with a broken jaw and a bandage around his head - he even dismissed Brian Lara.

Yeah, here's some video of that nerve racking spell, unfortunately, this does not cover the Lara wicket: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKpG5S6-RSI

But crazy to be bowling with a broken jaw like that, and to pretty much have the same accuracy. It seems he said "I'm pretty much flying home after this match anyway, let me be on the field and try to help in whatever way I can". He later said in an interview that he was fielding at the fine leg after his overs and there was a small Indian contingent who had come to watch, and every time he finished his over and went back to field there, they all used to stand up and sing "Vande Mataram", the Indian national song. Must have been one of the proudest moments for any Indian cricketer. He had said he had tears in his eyes...

That interview in the video by Andrew Liepus tells the whole story.

Kriterion, who are the BD Tough Guys? Historically, I can't look beyond Mohammed Rafique (what a wonderful guy!) and one of my favorites, Rajin Saleh. I thought he was really tough once he stepped onto the field. Thought Nasir Hossain had those qualities, but not sure what BCB is doing with his career...

I never put Jongwe in the basket of tough guy I just said I'm not ready to put him in with the likes of Sibanda, Chigs, Hami, Willy etc who have fallen to pieces under the pressure for a decade .....

This is inspired by BRMT's Sir Graeme Cremer thread.

Who is Zimbabwe's "toughest" ever cricketer? Who is qualified to wear the badge of "tough guy"?

What is a tough guy, you ask?

A tough guy is a guy who battles. He takes body blows. He is often bloodied, may come out on the losing (or drawing) side, but is rarely beaten, and never beaten easily. He is often underrated while less tough get more accolades.

Here are some examples.

Who is India's greatest cricketer? Most would say Tendulkar. Some Gavaskar or Kapil. In time, Kohli will crack the list. But that doesn't necessarily make them the toughest guys.

I think that accolade belongs to Laxman and even Dravid much more so than Tendy. Tendy choked regularly in the 4th innings of Test matches, in both World Cup finals he appeared in, and also was a no-show in possibly India's greatest ever triumph...that amazing come from behind win vs Australia in Kolkata in 2001.

Tendulkar scored more runs. A lot more. He was a "better" player. Had more awards, had a fanbase 10x bigger than everyone else on the planet combined. But Lax and the Wall were tougher, IMO.

Pretty sure A Flower would be on the list all time, but who of the current or recent lot?

I think Cremer certainly fits the bill with this knock today. Moor is on the way as well.

I'm less sure of Taylor as his match-defining innings are hard to remember. No doubt he's the best since 2004, with Daylight being second and third. But if he has a tough guy knock(s), I'm forgetting them.

The factors that come into play are the following in order of importance:

-Match situation

-Match situation again

-strength of opposition

-pitch conditions

Yes I would probably put Madziva there as well.

Cremer, Moor, Madziva.

Guy Whittall was the toughest.

India's toughest guy must have been VVS Laxman. That innings in Kolkata against Australia will be spoken about 200 years from now. That was the greatest game of cricket ever played.

For New Zealand, former opener Mark Richardson comes to mind - just watch this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQB90K73pqM

Great topic. I agree with eugene, Guy Whittall takes this one easily for Zim, followed by Andy Flower, Ray Price and may be then Heath Streak. I initially thought Mutumbami might get into this league looking at his Southern Rocks exploits, but not to be. Cremer and Moor sure look like cracking into this list, looking at their approaches and contributions of late. But Whittall was a different level altogether. That 188* vs NZ is good enough indication.

Also, another aspect that defines such folks is that they are ready to play any role for the team. Whittall opened the innings in ODIs for Zim as they searched for their best combination in late 90s, he was the first change bowler on many occasions in the subcontinent and lower order pinch hitter, thus not getting the best opportunities to improve his record, but never complained. Always up for the team's cause. He once bowled a long 22 over spell giving away 44 runs and getting a wicket in a day one Harare test when one of the pacers picked for the game broke down injured. Great guy.

This aspect is where I can easily rate Dravid above Laxman as the toughest for India. He opened in tests, kept wickets in ODIs - even in a World Cup no less for team combination to come good, and captained when no one else wanted that job. Laxman was pretty adamant to stay at 5 or 6 once he found his comfort there. Not discounting him, he comes a close second to Dravid. Kumble and Srinath are in this list too, ahead of the more celebrated Tendulkars, Gavaskars and Kapils. Srinath bowled on dust bowls (and the worst dust bowls you could find) in home matches all his career, and still produced thankless performances, most of the times, carrying the entire pace attack on his shoulders even on away tours. Not once he complained. Kumble too, took the criticism of being ineffective outside India, and look at his record since Sydney 2004, they are spectacular. Another guy who took up captaincy when no one, including Dravid at that stage wanted it. Grittiest of lower order batsmen too, putting a price tag on his wicket every time he walked out. May be it is a leg spinner thing.

I think Dravid is India's greatest. Laxman had that ability to score when no one else was but he went missing as well. Williams and Johnson are like this for Zim.

Whittall was a fighter for sure. Andy certainly was and we shouldn't be overawed by his success across the board. He could easily have averaged 40 with less spirit.

Cremer is willing to tough it out. I have to say Tiripano has some spunk. He was great yesterday and it wasn't a one off.

Actually Anil Kumble was a tough bugger. I remember him bowling with a broken jaw and a bandage around his head - he even dismissed Brian Lara.

Adam Huckle was another tough guy, those white farmers were a tough breed.