Has Mangongo cooked his goose?

Jemisi wrote:My memory is also reasonable and Hhm was pretty transparent in his desire for an all black team. He even wanted Taylor out.

actually there was a chronology in his argument .. initially he wanted lots of players in (Ewing, Duffin ...) but over time he reacted in what Zimdggy calls "a long-term trolling" way to the tongue in cheek calls for all and sundry

Jemisi wrote:Also arguments can be made which is fine - but then you are arguing over issues of merit rather than just accusations of racial bias.

Not really, because arguments of merit (when the stats are close) become a matter of passion or preference ... and one's passions can be revealing (eg ... the conclusion that my example team all edge out the others on merit)

Jemisi wrote:I know you were responding to the Moor campaign - which is partly tongue in cheek from Eugene, me thinks.

I'm sure it was tongue in cheek ... but what I was responding to was the calls for any guy who did anything to be thrown in the team (at whose expense?) ... and the idea that eg Matsi was hopeless while eg Carlisle (to take another random underperformer) was always a shoe-in. Vusi should be ousted yet Grant Flower's was also a shoe-in despite prolonged poor runs.

I don't think I have called anyone up on the matter who seems to have some balance [edit and even when I do it's just in curiosity - which in Googly's case my curiosity is appeased] ... I can't recall calling eg you, foreignfield, sloandog out on these selections, unless I genuinely have my own preference but then I am talking merit (or at least who I think merits a place).

Jemisi wrote:Williams had 'done enough' because he is a player who has demonstrated over time to be of a higher class than Maruma.

but had he? his international record is not great, his List A ain't great either and he had not had a huge amount of FC cricket ["time"] under his belt [and he was primarily a batsman where Maruma started out as a bowler who recently-ish decided to focus on batting - when he realised he could actually bat a bit - and finished the last FC season on statistical par with Sean]

...so...back to the initial allegations. There was an incident. Reports on what actually transpired will probably never be known. I hope it doesn't mess with M'shangwe's career. That lad showed a lot of promise.

Why did Mangongo go and talk to Natsai's mummy, though?

Ming wrote:...Why did Mangongo go and talk to Natsai's mummy, though?

Is she pretty? ;)

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
I think unless white zimbos just keep quiet and praise black players at any given opportunity they are going to cop some mindless lazy race accusation at some point.

It comes from the worst of them all, I have always marvelled at how hhm managed to get himself banished while you remained. Perhaps you gave been more subtle about it but sometimes you just cannot miss it!

ZIMDOGGY wrote:I'm saddened,

When i knew Googly was a white zimbo forumite (a rarity these days, him c**k and zimdan, the latter gone missing lately) i knew it was only a matter of time till someone would throw the race card at him.

I have always been of the impression that at least 60% of us here were white? Not that it ever mattered to me: but once team debates and selection set in that is when obvious bias based on race has come glaringly to the fore.

You seem to lament that fact that there is less than you wld like but surely country demographic – cricket following public even – and the more equal nature of literacy in this country insist that this should be so.

Googly, my attitude towards you – and everybody else on this forum - has been informed by the posts and comments you make.

As betterdays pointed out, when prompted to envisage a fair team that could repsent Zimbabwe in the next five to ten years there was no single person of colour – or was there? No Shingi Masakadza, no, Hamilton, No Vusi, Taylor was there so age could be a factor. But more glaringly no, Kevin Kasuza no, Kudzai Samunderu, no Luke Jongwe nor even Tendai Chatara.

My initial scepetism was on this current post – which has proven to be true if not a little buttered up - was based on how you said you FORGOT the name of the bloke. This simply rang incredulous - it was the most important part wasn’t it? It turns out you were protecting the young man’s identify. Shouldn’t you have said so in the first place?

Googly wrote: Suggesting that all black guys look the same to me is really not cool. I have not written a post in the past that suggests in any way that I am racist so not sure where you are coming from.

It was a cheap shot. I apologise.

We all hate the lack of accountability in people, we want the “leadership and business skills, the work ethic and integrity,” we haven’t seen this from a largely black majority government, we all yearn for it. Incidentally this whole issue has arisen from “poor work ethic, lack of accountability by the player involved who failed to PASS ON A MESSAGE he had been instructed to deliver, choosing instead to go eat! :o I would have been enraged!!

That is accountability, that is drive and that counts for something from this beleaguered coach we all want to see the back off. I shall not defend or justify his response or actions but he has something going for him!

By the way: how many of us here happen to be admirers of Sir Alex and his hairdryer methods? ;)

samedwards wrote:Treating national cricketers like kids from coaching camps is not cool.

but happens ... think Mickey and handing out homework :D

jaybro wrote:Maybe because Carlisle n wishart played in stronger teams with the flowers, Campbell etc they weren't relied on as much to score on the other hand matsi was a promising young player and then all of a sudden he was a senior player relied on for runs same as vusi so when they failed it noticed more because there was no one else to pick up the slack.

Do you agree betterdays ??

I didn't mean to come accross as ever having disagreed with you ... but yes, i think the point you make here is a relevant one! cheers

ZIMDOGGY wrote:The best the boys now have faced is Shane Shillingford and Ajmal. And they were raped...bareback and anally.

Quite surprised i let this slip (considering i'm not a fan of either Shillingford's or Ajmal's actions - though that is modern cricket it seems!). What we know for sure is that the old guard certainly didn't have to face off-spinners who can turn it both ways ie Ajmal and Shillingford so who knows how they would have coped with the doosra? ... Murali has an average of 14 vs Zim (at a time he rarely, if ever, employed the doosra), so I'm imagining not very well!

Message to mangongo from an irrate fan... (Photoshop)