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Does beating Australia change your opinion of Mangongo?

Zimbabwe Cricket Forum 5 posts 31 views

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ZCF Hall of Famer

Opening post

All international teams have a batting, bowling and fielding coach. I am always a bit confused as to what the main coach does from day to day. I guess he is more of an overall manager. The players know their own games and what they need to work on. The main coach presumably steps in to bat on match day when he discusses with the captain the various strategies. Presumably he also has a say in selection. SM currently does it all. Muf is a top guy and works very hard.
Legend

CrimsonAvenger wrote:Yes. With Zimdoggy on how much we know about any of these guys who have coached us. Let us not look at this as a race thing. As an outsider and as someone who has nothing to do with either color, these have been my observations in the forums with respect to coaching staff:

1. You rarely see profuse praise showered on Butcher or Waller anyway.

2. The forum has been most critical of Kevin Curran's "let's earn respectability, not win" approach to coaching the national team.

3. The Pakistan test win is mostly attributed to Chatara, Hammy, Virori, and others, not to the coach who had taken over too.

4. Grant Flower was the only guy who received regular praise on the forums because people knew about his credentials and the news of his hard work was everywhere.

5. Heath Streak probably claimed more credit than he was given during his tenure as bowling coach and his handling of Querl at Tuskers ensured he doesn't get unconditional love too.

6. The only domestic coaches who have received a lot of respect in the forums are Gillespie and Brent and rightly so.

7. Again, the outburst is against the behaviour of Mangongo and not his coaching, which is an unknown anyway. Indeed, credit to him for spotting the talent in Elton, Prosper and co. No one is taking that away.

Hope this helps.


Spot on (and also agreeing with Zimdoggy about how much do we know).

On the other hand, there is a constant refrain from a lot of people closer to the action that the players are lazy, spoilt, complacent, and need a stern hand. I cannot possibly say how much truth is in there: Yes, you have BT who carries too much weight and loathes fitness tests, but isn't this the same guy who spent hours and hours with Grant Flower in the nets? It might have been GF's work ethic rubbing off, but I doubt he had to use any gross disciplinarian methods to lure him out of bed early in the morning.

When Waller became coach there was a lot of noise, from various quarters, about how he's a stern disciplinarian and exactly what the players need ... in fact much like after the Mangongo appointment. Reading a lot of comments here over the years along those lines, I have started wondering if people are not projecting their own experiences of growing up in what looks to me -- a complete stranger (and I might be totally wrong of course) -- like a rather stern and disciplinarian educational system (especially in the boarding schools) onto a group of grown men. "If you do not do as you are told, you'll get a caning!" What you need in this day and age, and what makes players and teams successful, is a working relationship between players and coaches, where discipline is bred by the mutual understanding of what is good for the group. There is of course a fine line between allowing players to feel relaxed and free to express themselves and too much laissez-faire, but that is the Art of Coaching ... and treading fine lines does not seem to be Mangongo's forte.

The one statement from Alan Butcher that stuck with me was how shocked he was when he took over that even the most senior players were palpably afraid to speak their mind, even when encouraged to do so. No wonder Zimbabwe has failed to groom captains who can think on their feet.

My 2cents from a corner of a foreign field ...
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
Well we all have some level of bias.

Can we rise above it? Can I make a judgement of someone's behaviour if they have a different cultural background than mine?

My main impressions of Mangongo so far is that he is head strong. Some of the most successful people in the world share this trait. It also often qualifies them as a*****es.

Mangongo seems passionate. I like that. I have a passion for Zim too.

He is mixed up with the evils of ZC. I don't like that. I want white, black and asian playing the game together for Zim.

He seems to have more pull with the numbies in the admin. I like that. If they can only work with a black man then hopefully he can get some more effort out of them. If he takes his caning approach to the admins then hooray. Get them working for the game.

He dropped BRMT. I don't like that. I am prepared to tolerate it as a show of power as a one off. Play the strongest team.

He seems to have gotten Maruma out of the picture. I like that. Some merit based selection at least.

Zimdoggy is right about our level of technical knowledge. I really don't know about that. I doubt he compares to GF.

On balance my feelings are mixed about him at the moment.
The Third Innings
Legend
^^ Nice post. Agree with most of it.
ZCF Hall of Famer
No one ever gave Bhundu any credit for winning an ODI and Test against Pakistan whilst having to deal with loosing KJ and threats of player strikes, so I don't get the whole 'Mongongo never gets any praise whilst Butcher and Bhundu are hailed as kings' arguement .....

The reason these guys don't get any credit is because of what ZIMDOGGY pointed out we don't know because we can't see what they do, but what we do know is that SM talks about dropping his best players and Criticsises them publicly or physically asults them or drops them and fines them for sharing videos or making PJ Moor face a barrage of bouncers in the nets ........ These are the reasons I'm not a big fan of SM. I do like that he is big on discipline and how he is trying to fast track Nick Welch but if this guy was here in Australia he wouldn't be allowed any where near a sporting team after the stunts he has pulled ......

I feel the prejudice is from the part of calling the anti SM supporters racists claiming we only dis like him because of his skin colour but from Conant I expect nothing less ......

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