zimcricketforums.com • View topic - Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

jaybro wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 1:29 am

Bangladesh hammered by Ireland A

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/1906 ... eland-2019

Concerning??

I wouldn't think so. Just a practice game. Remember how strong NZ were in the 2015 world cup, reaching the finals? They were getting hammered by Zimbabwe and only avoided a near-certain loss due to rain.

That being said, this BD side's bowling lacks venom and variety. Its almost purely a containment bowling strategy. Batting is our relative strength, but on the days the batting collapses or fails to fire, the bowling will be exposed.

The fortunes like almost exclusively on Tamim, Mushy, Shakib, and Riyad's consistency and will largely depend on how many contributions Soumya, Sabbir, and Mosaddek can make. I am assuming Liton and Mithun will fail every time they get an chance.

jaybro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:59 pm

This is why people say Bangladeshis get ahead of themselves and are arrogant, the Windies took 1 and half games off India at home that's a big achievement and although they were diabolical in the Test series they're still a dangerous ODI and t20 side

To be fair there is usually one standard applied to BD/BD fans, and a markedly more lenient one for many if not most of the other teams. Yes, in this particular instance a 2-1 series win against a team that won 1.5 games in India is still a decent effort.

Not sure if it's always been this way but it seems lately batting 2nd in Bangladesh is vital in ODI's due to the dew factor, has it always been such an advantage ?

I dont think dew factor is that big a deal. Its more an excuse if you dont win the toss (boo hoo). A good team will win batting first or second, dew or dry. Players carry towels, and you soak a ball in a tub of water but after toweling it, its perfectly fine to grip. Plus our spinners bowled just fine with the supposed dew. The game was lost in the batting. The consistency of Tamim, Shakib, Mushfiq, and Riyad means that usually at least two of them will fire to take BD to a 280+ total. The days that all 4 fail, we need someome else to step up otherwise we will get these sub par totals and lose more often than not. But players like Mithun or Imrul are not the answer. At best they are support players.

I'm not sure how the local selectors see it, but I was a BCB selector, I would select this batting lineup and stick with them for 6 months and give them a bit of consistency and allow them to develop confidence as a lineup:

Tamim Iqbal

Liton Das

Mominul Haque

Mushfiqur Rahim

Shakib al Hasan

Soumya Sarkar

Mahmudullah

Tamim, Mushfiq and Shakib form the core for now, and there is clearly massive talent in each of Das (like Tari, if he tones down some of the aerial shots, he's excellent), Sarkar (for me the most stylish leftie in the world right now when on song) and Mominul (there is a definite place for him at 3 in ODIs too, must be groomed to take over the role of Mushy ultimately). May be swap Sarkar and Das. By the time the big three retire, if at least 2 of the 3 young guys have found consistency, you've hit gold (and all 3 are capable of it). If you keep chopping and changing till those 3 retire, then you end up with where SL have landed themselves now post the Sanga-Mahela era.

jaybro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:59 pm

Kriterion_BD wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:19 pm

This has been a bad series. We ought to be whitewashing teams like WI at home.

This is why people say Bangladeshis get ahead of themselves and are arrogant, the Windies took 1 and half games off India at home that's a big achievement and although they were diabolical in the Test series they're still a dangerous ODI and t20 side

Couldn't agree more, I think the Krit man is being slightly discrediting to the West Indies here. They pushed India hard in that ODI series and have shown again in the last ODI that they have a core group of lads who are going to make some noise going forward. Hope, Thomas and Hetmyer are three stupidly exciting prospects. Hope's ODI batting is going from strength to strength and he's already averaging in the mid 40's.

I just want to see Evan Lewis replace Hemraj at the top, and Pooran in the middle order somewhere, anywhere! This kid has what it takes I'm telling you

Yeah where are Lewis and Gayle??

Very hard for the Windies to build a team when guys are picking and choosing which series they want to play.

jaybro wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:28 am

Yeah where are Lewis and Gayle??

Very hard for the Windies to build a team when guys are picking and choosing which series they want to play.

It's been like that for nearly 8 years though mate.

Gayle I'm not massively arsed about now, I still say he's got something left in the tank but he's way past his best. He's going to be useful at best in the World Cup, and then he should step aside. Lewis is the major loss at the top, for me. He's such a talented batter.

Pooran is another, as I mentioned. Him, Hetmyr, Bravo, Hope, Lewis up top is a juicy and exciting batting order. Pollard I don't rate at all and his value way over estimated.

sloandog = Pacers and speed guns + Pakistan + Windies + Diplock :D

sloandog wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:32 am

It's been like that for nearly 8 years though mate.

Gayle I'm not massively arsed about now, I still say he's got something left in the tank but he's way past his best. He's going to be useful at best in the World Cup, and then he should step aside. Lewis is the major loss at the top, for me. He's such a talented batter.

Pooran is another, as I mentioned. Him, Hetmyr, Bravo, Hope, Lewis up top is a juicy and exciting batting order. Pollard I don't rate at all and his value way over estimated.

Have Lewis and Pooran made themselves unavailable??

They really could have such a great side at the WC

jaybro wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:38 pm

They really could have such a great side at the WC

They are already a great side. They've qualified for the WC in cutthroat tournament with no breathing space. They might even go on to win a game or two at the big dance next summer. To be fair though, Sri Lanka and Afghanistan are also great sides given all that they have accomplished over the years.

Kriterion_BD wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:25 pm

jaybro wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:38 pm

They really could have such a great side at the WC

They are already a great side. They've qualified for the WC in cutthroat tournament with no breathing space. They might even go on to win a game or two at the big dance next summer. To be fair though, Sri Lanka and Afghanistan are also great sides given all that they have accomplished over the years.

This side they’re putting out at the moment isn’t a great side, still need a few stars to come back in

Gayle

Lewis

Hope

Bravo

Samuels

Hetmyer

Powell

Holder

Russell

Narine

Roach

That would be a deadly side

jaybro wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:58 pm

This side they’re putting out at the moment isn’t a great side, still need a few stars to come back in

Gayle

Lewis

Hope

Bravo

Samuels

Hetmyer

Powell

Holder

Russell

Narine

Roach

That would be a deadly side

Gayle is too old now. He'll play a blinder once every 10 games or so. Way past his prime. With the exceptions of Hope and Hetmyer none of these players is consistent and even then Hope's career strike rate so far is far too low for the modern game. That squad above would be a solid 9th ranked ODI team, IMO.

Get rid of Rovman amd add Pooran and that would be my side. You've got depth with the ball as well in Thomas and Joseph in the wings. The West Indies really do just need to click. They have more talent in this batch of players than they have in a very long time and people realise it

That team could beat anyone anywhere, sure they probably won’t be consistent enough to be ranked No.1 but I think that’s a dangerous side.

Being ranked 9th you’re ranking them below Sri Lanka and Bangladesh presumably ? I disagree with that

sloandog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:19 pm

Get rid of Rovman amd add Pooran and that would be my side. You've got depth with the ball as well in Thomas and Joseph in the wings. The West Indies really do just need to click. They have more talent in this batch of players than they have in a very long time and people realise it

Might be a bit skinny on bowling

sloandog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:19 pm

They have more talent in this batch of players than they have in a very long time and people realise it

I think the WI Test side has considerable more talent. Hetmyer to me is the closest thing to Lara since Lara. Left handed batsmen who really likes to go at the bowlers. The seam attack is world class with Gabriel and Roach (Holder, Joseph, Paul are more than decent as 3rd seamers). Hope and Chase are decent batters.

In ODIs though, Hetmyer and Hope are really the only decent bats. And thats assuming Hope doesn't revert back to his snail paced batting after these tours to the subcontinent. A 45 average is decent, but an ODI batsman needs to have a strike rate of 80 at bear minimum and ideally of 85+.

In T20s the WI will always be a top side or capable of winning a T20 world cup on the back of power hitting alone.

The upcoming Test and ODI leagues will help answer a lot of questions.

I strongly disagree the Windies are a better Test side, purely for the fact they don’t have the batsman to bat long consistently. Sure Hope did well at Edgbaston and looks like he’ll work it out one day and Kraigg Braithwaite has a decent record but overall they don’t have the batsman to win tests consistently.

Hetmyer will be a t20 merchant soon enough like the rest of the superstars from the Caribbean, I can’t see him playing 50 Tests.

jaybro wrote: ↑Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:39 am

I strongly disagree the Windies are a better Test side, purely for the fact they don’t have the batsman to bat long consistently. Sure Hope did well at Edgbaston and looks like he’ll work it out one day and Kraigg Braithwaite has a decent record but overall they don’t have the batsman to win tests consistently.

See this is where I am not sure what data set you and sloandog are going off. Sloan, being based in England, perhaps he's seen some of the Windian blokes in County cricket or the Natwest T20, but T20 is a risky format to judge ODI ability apart from big hitting or death bowling capability.

The current Windies side has won Tests in England (granted everyone wins a Test in England), and in the UAE (everyone seems to be winning a Test there too now). But thats still an improvement in the Windies Test fortunes from 2000-2015 when I don't think they had won a single away Test. So from 0 in 15 years, they're now at 2 in the last 3. Small but definite improvement. The bowling attack is also significantly better with Gabriel, Roach, Holder, Joseph, Paul as opposed to Edwards, Taylor, Rampaul, etc. The batting is certainly weaker from the Chanderpaul, Lara, Sarwan days but even those 3 barely tasted any Test victories.

In ODIs however, the WIndies play a large number of games every year home and away, and they haven't won an ODI series since 2014. To put it into perspective, even Zimbabwe have won an ODI series in the past year against a major side (albeit Sri Lanka are reduced to near minnow levels of ineptitude on the field these days). The WI have lost 3 times as many ODIs as they have won. Thats with Hope, Hetmyer, Evin Lewis, and other players. The only players who are up to the mark in ODIs so far are Hetmyer, Hope, and Holder. maybe Joseph too but even Hope is a stretch with a career strike rate of 70. That strike rate won't win you many games.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a strong WI team as cricket needs it and historical tradition begs for it.

What's your issue with Hope's strike rate? His 146* came at a strike rate of 101 and his 108* was a lone hand in an otherwise terrible batting performance on a tricky surface up front. I think you're being a little narrow minded in putting so much emphasis on strike rates, especially considering Bangladesh's three best batters have strike rates of 78, 81 and 77 over a 12 year career...

Hope's provided some stability up top for the first time in years, finally, and he's carrying his bat to boot

sloandog wrote: ↑Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:42 pm

What's your issue with Hope's strike rate? His 146* came at a strike rate of 101 and his 108* was a lone hand in an otherwise terrible batting performance on a tricky surface up front. I think you're being a little narrow minded in putting so much emphasis on strike rates, especially considering Bangladesh's three best batters have strike rates of 78, 81 and 77 over a 12 year career...

Hope's provided some stability up top for the first time in years, finally, and he's carrying his bat to boot

That’s precisely my point. Bangladesh has 3 guys with 80 strike rates and are ranked 7th, well behind 6th place Australia. How are WI with 1 guy at 80+ and one at 70 going to be world beaters? Especially when the historical record reads to the contrary.

The other thing is statistically significant contexts. For example Tamim Iqbal has a career average of 37. But he’s a much better player than that because the past 4 years he’s averaging 60 plus behind only Kohli, Root, and Rohit. Even Tamim’s strike rate in this period of around 79-80 is too low for the current era but he’s playing the role

Or an anchor and with a 60 average it’s not my

Place to argue. In the same period Mushfiq has a strike rate touching 90. This over a 50 game sample size, not just a series or two.

Shai Hope has played brilliantly in the last two series. But it’s only an 8 game stretch. Chamu Chibabha had a similar stretch of good scores early in 2015.

As an aside, this should also put into perspective Baba Azam’s 50 plus average. Yes it’s pretty good, but Mushfiqur Rahim has a similar average at higher strike rate.

Also strike rates are absolutely important in ODIs. A batter who can rotate the strike effectively and get timely boundaries (Kohli is the epitome) without playing in the air is essential to a team consistently getting competitive totals.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/1878 ... sh-2018-19

He's been listening, clearly