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zimcricketforums.com • View topic - Bangladesh Watch 2015-2019

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Kriterion_BD wrote:Unbelievable news! Taskin reported for chucking. I am enraged. No way to prove it of course, but my personal belief is that this is in response to the viral image of Taskin holding MS Dhoni's severed head. The timing and circumstance is extremely coincidental.


"Suspect action" is the right term for this, and I don't mean Taskin's bowling.
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
The Tigers seem to have a new lease of success currently. Are they assuming their role as the jungle's apex predator???

Over the next 4 years, we should have a fairly busy schedule. 33 Tests, and 41 ODIs scheduled (don't care about T20s) + 2 Asia Cups + 1 tri series.

This year is a pretty tough one. 4 home series as follows:

vs PAK (2 Tests, 3 ODIs)

vs IND (1 Test, 3 ODIs)

vs SA (2 Tests, 3 ODIs)

vs AUS (2 Tests)

The rainy season coincides with the PAK, IND, and SA tours. Thus, I think we have the ability to draw all 5 scheduled Tests, and maybe win a 3-4 of the ODIs, more if India sends their "A" team like last year.

What is most promising about this Bangladesh side is that they are starting to form a well rounded side. The very end of this 4 year period will see us venture out to New Zealand for a 3-Test series, and by that time we could have a very strong lineup. Most of our players are either entering the prime of their career or are still in their pre-prime early years.

Mushfiq-Shakib-Tamim form the core, and they are vastly experienced, yet still young. Shakib at 28 is the oldest, while Mushfiq and Tamim are both only 26. Mushfiq in particular has the discipline and fitness to play on until he's 40. Mahmudullah may become a member of this club, as he was the MVP during the World Cup...much to everyone's surprise! He too is still south of 30 years old.

The youth brigade is staffed by Mominul-Nasir-Sabbir-Soumya-Taskin-Taijul-Jubair. None is older than 23 but all have already started making their mark at the highest level. Abul Hasan is outside this group, but if he can average even a third of what his current Test average is, and provide something with the ball, he too could be an asset. Shohag Gazi too could offer much with both bat and ball.

Yet uncapped but promising players include left arm seamer Mustafizur Rahman, batsmen Mosaddek Hossain, Nazmul Hossain Shanto, Shadman Islam, and leg spinner Saleh Ahmed. Most of these players are Under-19ers and the current U-19 team is leading the defending world champions, South Africa, 4-1 in a 7 match ODI series.

Most Bangladesh fans are excited after a generally impressive showing at the 2015 World Cup.

Whether they get there or not, but I believe we have the capability to be the 5th or 6th ranked ODI side in the world by 2019, and be 7th or 8th ranked Test team.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
Veteran

Kriterion_BD wrote:Mushfiq-Shakib-Tamim form the core, and they are vastly experienced, yet still young. Shakib at 28 is the oldest, while Mushfiq and Tamim are both only 26.


What the..... Tamim is 26?? I always thought he was 30+....


Kriterion_BD wrote:Yet uncapped but promising players include left arm seamer Mustafizur Rahman, batsmen Mosaddek Hossain, Nazmul Hossain Shanto, Shadman Islam, and leg spinner Saleh Ahmed. Most of these players are Under-19ers and the current U-19 team is leading the defending world champions, South Africa, 4-1 in a 7 match ODI series.


BD and AFG U19 teams are actually pretty strong. They seem to do much better than the U19 sides of many so-called "top 8" nations.....

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that their U19 players also play in the domestic competition, unlike Zim......
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
2-0 up on Pakistan, and series clinched. BanglaWash part III would be very handy with the Champions Trophy in mind.

Pak absolutely annihilated today with 240 chased inside 39 overs!
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
ZCF Hall of Famer
It's very enjoyable watching BD knock off Pakistan with such ease, before this series they had only won the solitary match against big brother Pakistan and that was 16 years ago at the 99 WC .....

Have BD finally turned the very long corner of being a minnow to being a mid ranked side ????

A test victory against Pakistan will go a long way towards confirming this ......
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
I agree Jaybro, until we win at least 2-3 tests (or absolutely annhilate by 200 runs/7+ wickets if a single win) we can't make a legit claim at not being a minnow.

It's obvious we're not ODI minnows any more with 4 series wins in the last 5 years, 2 of them 5 match series. Also 3 consecutive top 8 level performances in the last 3 world cups: 2007 (super 8), 2011 (missed QF on net run rate), 2015 (quarterfinals).

The current side is good enough to win Tests at home especially against sides like WI, NZ and possibly even SL and PAK. But we will need pitches that actually favor spin. And we will Taskin to take the cherry and not guys like Rubel.

If it wasn't monsoon season I'd expect a win here vs Pak. Maybe in October when the Aussies come if we have rank turners...we have a shot.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
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Australia are there for taking in BD, they just can't play spin friendly conditions well at all. Their batsman struggle to adapt, their seamers are in effective, Nathan Lyon doesn't understand how to bowl on the subcontinent and MJ Clarke who is a great captain doesn't seem to know how to set fields or plans on these decks either ......

I'll still back the Aussies to win but BD should see that series as a great opportunity for a famous test win, remember they should have won the First test in BD in 06 only for a 2nd innings collapse and then a dropped catch off Ponting ......
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
You remember that 06 test? Impressive. I agree, 2-0 to aus is the the only rational prediction. But there's an opportunity if we get spinning wickets.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
ZCF Hall of Famer

Kriterion_BD wrote:You remember that 06 test? Impressive. I agree, 2-0 to aus is the the only rational prediction. But there's an opportunity if we get spinning wickets.


I was actually cheering on BD believe it or not, despite what opinion you may have formed after my tirades against BD I actually support them when ever they're not playing Zim even against Australia probably due to them always being such rank outsiders against Aus. Ashraful was one of my favourite players those two ODI innings in England in 05 still live clearly in my mind ......
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
Haha, I think you were overly underestimative of BD in the past year...then again our 2014 form was so bad one could be forgiven for such a mistake. Even BD fans (not me tho) felt similarly. The talent was always there. Even back in 2005 we had Ashraful, Aftab, Shahadat who are just as talented as the current bunch. They were just dumb (Aftab), lazy (Shahadat), or incapable of withstanding mental pressure associated with pro sports (Ash). I think its extremely fool hardy to assume that 160 million population won't eventually find the jackpot without subscribing to some form of racist theory of incompetence.

That being said there will still be massive collapses. But overall, the development has always been positive ever since Dav Whatmore took the reigns in June 2003. Bangladesh were worse than Canada, forget Kenya or Streak's Zimbabwe.

And to all the idiot Indians and Pakistanis who claim Afghanistan and Ireland are better than us or developing faster, remember that BD were on par with the Netherlands and behind teams like UAE as recently as 1995. In 20 years we've closed the gap with the bottom half of the elite nations like WI, SL, PAK, ENG in one or both formats. Hows that for development?

The thing is the BCB are still massively incompetent, maybe not as bad as ZC but worse than almost all the other board. For every decent plan we have a couple of horrificly retarded status quos. For example, cricket is still centralized to Dhaka despite most of the talent residing outside the large metropolitan area. Almost all first class and list A matches are hosted in Dhaka. There is no concept of home and away.

The progress we're seeing stems from a few things:

1) natural progression of players whereby each passing generation has a higher baseline talent level and higher ceiling as well

2) that leads to slightly better domestic competitions

3) contribution of foreign coaches and experts, however limited by BCB foolishness. Shout outs to Whatmore, Jaimie Siddons, Ian Pont, Chandika Hathurasinga, and Heath Streak. Special mention for Richard McInnis who has done so much at the developmental level over 2 separate stints in BD. He is responsible for Mushfiq, Shakib, and Tamim.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.

grant wrote:

Kriterion_BD wrote:Mushfiq-Shakib-Tamim form the core, and they are vastly experienced, yet still young. Shakib at 28 is the oldest, while Mushfiq and Tamim are both only 26.


What the..... Tamim is 26?? I always thought he was 30+....


Kriterion_BD wrote:Yet uncapped but promising players include left arm seamer Mustafizur Rahman, batsmen Mosaddek Hossain, Nazmul Hossain Shanto, Shadman Islam, and leg spinner Saleh Ahmed. Most of these players are Under-19ers and the current U-19 team is leading the defending world champions, South Africa, 4-1 in a 7 match ODI series.


BD and AFG U19 teams are actually pretty strong. They seem to do much better than the U19 sides of many so-called "top 8" nations.....

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that their U19 players also play in the domestic competition, unlike Zim......


To be honest I think the use of "top 8" as a phrase is something which should be heavily discouraged as it reinforces the notion that only a certain number of cricketing sides are, or ever can, be good enough. It's not a long step from using "top 8" to advocating "tiers". As far as I'm concerned "top 8" is at best an artificial and arbitrary grouping and at worst code for discrimination against sides which did not have full membership before 1990. The fact is that Zimbabwe and Bangladesh more than did enough to qualify for full membership (and I challenge anyone to prove for example that Bangladesh did not have multi-innings, multi-day domestic cricket matches before their first test in 2000 or that cricket wasn't regularly featured in the news there prior to the first test match - the talk about Bangladesh or any other full members being accorded full membership without the meeting the current criteria for full membership is straight up crap and ignorance!) and excluding them by referring to "top 8" sides is just wrong.

Using a term like top 8 also doesn't allow for the acceptance that there might well be more than 8 teams which are actually competitive in terms of performance....which is what we are seeing now I believe as Bangladesh's performances improve. The anchor frame of reference for the terminology "top 8" is often the highest ranked side or the highest ranked few (or as a variant, the oldest few sides), which means that until Australia, India, South Africa or England find themselves ranked as No. 9 or No. 10 consistently then the frame of reference will not change. On the other hand if any of those sides were to be ranked as No. 9 or No. 10 then I have little doubt that the term "top 8" would fade and we would see it replaced by "top 10".


Kriterion_BD wrote:Haha, I think you were overly underestimative of BD in the past year...then again our 2014 form was so bad one could be forgiven for such a mistake. Even BD fans (not me tho) felt similarly. The talent was always there. Even back in 2005 we had Ashraful, Aftab, Shahadat who are just as talented as the current bunch. They were just dumb (Aftab), lazy (Shahadat), or incapable of withstanding mental pressure associated with pro sports (Ash). I think its extremely fool hardy to assume that 160 million population won't eventually find the jackpot without subscribing to some form of racist theory of incompetence.


My thoughts exactly. I've never agreed with the way commentators, journalists and some fans have disparaged Bangladesh (and Zimbabwe...and to a lesser extent the West Indies, Pakistan and Sri Lanka). It was always in poor taste and seemed predicated on racism and the notion that things will never change, when anyone actually engaging their neurons could tell that any of those teams could one day rise in the rankings and do really, really well for a period of time. Bangladesh has the history (being part of India and Pakistan and having had first class matches up to the late 1960s), cricketing culture, fan base, player base, infrastructure and the competitions necessary to give themselves the kind of foundation from which they can put out potentially match winning, series winning and tournament winning teams.


That being said there will still be massive collapses. But overall, the development has always been positive ever since Dav Whatmore took the reigns in June 2003. Bangladesh were worse than Canada, forget Kenya or Streak's Zimbabwe.


The difference being though that Kenya and Canada don't have the similar kind of foundations as Bangladesh which is why since 2003 Bangladesh has now become more consistent (at least at home) and those two teams have faded badly.


And to all the idiot Indians and Pakistanis who claim Afghanistan and Ireland are better than us or developing faster,


Well they are idiots if they are claiming that. Given that Bangladesh is already at a point where Afghanistan and Ireland need to develop to such claims would be nonsensical. At best maybe one could argue that Afghanistan is developing at a faster rate than Bangladesh did at a similar point in Bangladesh's pre-full membership history. But if that were the case it would be due to the differences in the eras (Bangladesh for instance developed in the era before T20 could be used to really popularize cricket and generate revenues)


remember that BD were on par with the Netherlands and behind teams like UAE as recently as 1995

.

which once again is due to the foundations. Both the Netherlands and the UAE have quite a bit of history with cricket but in both countries cricket is very much a minority/expat sport.


In 20 years we've closed the gap with the bottom half of the elite nations like WI, SL, PAK, ENG in one or both formats. Hows that for development?


That's development that should be expected to be honest. :D


The thing is the BCB are still massively incompetent, maybe not as bad as ZC but worse than almost all the other board. For every decent plan we have a couple of horrificly retarded status quos. For example, cricket is still centralized to Dhaka despite most of the talent residing outside the large metropolitan area. Almost all first class and list A matches are hosted in Dhaka. There is no concept of home and away.


I suspect that will be the step to unlocking Bangladesh's full potential. If matches begin to spread outside of Dhaka then I would expect that within a few years of that occurring we would see Bangladesh being equivalent to Pakistan (not the team Pakistan just fielded though, the normal Pakistan) in terms of their dynamism on the field. 8-)


The progress we're seeing stems from a few things:

1) natural progression of players whereby each passing generation has a higher baseline talent level and higher ceiling as well


Yep. Foundation.


2) that leads to slightly better domestic competitions

3) contribution of foreign coaches and experts, however limited by BCB foolishness. Shout outs to Whatmore, Jaimie Siddons, Ian Pont, Chandika Hathurasinga, and Heath Streak. Special mention for Richard McInnis who has done so much at the developmental level over 2 separate stints in BD. He is responsible for Mushfiq, Shakib, and Tamim.


Agreed.
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
Our streak of 6 consecutive ODI series wins has ended. Should have won the series against England to make it 7 in a row, but in the end the better team over the 3 games won. Kudos to England who did it with basically their 2nd string side.

The ODI road gets much harder next year with series in NZ, SL, and the tougher Champions Trophy group (vs ENG, AUS, and NZ), there are also tours to AUS and SA. We will be severely tested in overseas conditions next year after 2 years of playing exclusively at home.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
Less than 48 hours before our return to Test match cricket! Incredibly stoked as always.

Its been almost 15 months since our last Test (at home vs South Africa). England have picked a near full strength side, with the only omission being James Anderson who is out with an injury.

We will be missing our first 3 seam bowlers as Mustafiz and Mohammad Shahid are injured, and Taskin deemed not fit enough for the 5 day game. Shafiul Islam makes a comeback and Kamrul Islam Rabbi who has been on the A team for several years is likely to get his debut.

But the biggest inclusions are Sabbir Rahman and 18 year old Mehedi Hasan. I think both are nearly certain to make the starting XI. Mehedi is a right handed version of Shakib, and I think Bangladesh may potentially be able to field 2 of the best all rounders in the modern game.

Nurul Hasan looks set to miss out, although I'd loved to have had him keep wicket with Mushfiq becoming a specialist batsman. Nurul can not only bat, but he's also arguably the best WK in the country. At 6 feet tall, he's much more natural than the 5'3" Mushfiq.

All indications are its going to be a dead flat track.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
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Boy, what a nerve wracking finish we are in for in the Chittagong Test on day 5.

Sabbir on 59*, with just two tailenders remaining as we look to somehow score 33 more on a wicket that has turned from ball #1. Interestingly last man, Shafiul, has a test best of 53 which was scored vs England.

BD fans are daring to dream, but I don't see how we can make it. Ball is reversing, and the new ball is due in 2 overs. Interestingly in these conditions, the new ball has been useless to the quicks, and the spinners from both sides have made the new ball talk.
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ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
It is another exciting test, feeling for you Kriterion
The Third Innings
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May be this loss is a blessing in disguise. Lot of hard lessons learnt for the future. This team was totally capable of winning the test and Shakib has to take a lot of responsibility for his idiotic shot to get out in the first innings. It turned out to be a major turning point of the match when they were poised to take a healthy first innings lead and bat England out of contention. As always, BD suffering from the lack of temperament among batsmen. But there have been huge improvements in the Haturusingha era, as expected. Bangladesh should have managed match fitness of Mominul better too, given how vital he was for the tests. May be at the risk of losing the ODIs (which they lost anyway), they could have played him in them and played him into some form for the tests. Would have been a huge boost.

But I just happened to watch only this morning's session of this match. Given how BD was poised to for a potential win, lack of attendance at the stadium was shocking. BCB should have opened the gates and should have said free entry. Who knows, crowd support would have spurred Shabbir onto a quicker finish...

And what about the Dharmasena Review System?
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer

CrimsonAvenger wrote:May be this loss is a blessing in disguise. Lot of hard lessons learnt for the future. This team was totally capable of winning the test and Shakib has to take a lot of responsibility for his idiotic shot to get out in the first innings. It turned out to be a major turning point of the match when they were poised to take a healthy first innings lead and bat England out of contention. As always, BD suffering from the lack of temperament among batsmen. But there have been huge improvements in the Haturusingha era, as expected. Bangladesh should have managed match fitness of Mominul better too, given how vital he was for the tests. May be at the risk of losing the ODIs (which they lost anyway), they could have played him in them and played him into some form for the tests. Would have been a huge boost.

But I just happened to watch only this morning's session of this match. Given how BD was poised to for a potential win, lack of attendance at the stadium was shocking. BCB should have opened the gates and should have said free entry. Who knows, crowd support would have spurred Shabbir onto a quicker finish...

And what about the Dharmasena Review System?


This was the most painful loss of any since I've been a BD fan - and there have been many.

Batting temperament was not an issue IMO. Only the wicket of Kayes in the 2nd innings and Shakib in the 1st were thrown away. Apart from that the other 38 wickets came off unplayable balls. It was a tough wicket to bat on, no hundreds even though there were a good number of big name batters (Cook, Root, Tamim, Mushfiq). 275 was a par first innibgs total, IMO.

We got beaten by Englands lower order.

As for Dharmasena, it was a tough wicket for umpires. The amount of turn meant that many lbws were overturnrd in the batsman's favor. I think it was a record number of reviews in this game.

Overall a lot positives for Bangladesh.

Very curious to see what kind of track we have in Dhaka.

As I predicted earlier in this thread, Bangladesh is close to winning Tests. We've proven we can upset any of the non Asian sides in our wickets.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
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This Chittagong wicket was a big turner. Similar to the Dhaka pitch during the ZIM test in 2014 (although that wicket also had pace and bounce to assist the seamers).

Here is a clip of Mehedi Hasan Miraz's 6 fer on debut:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW-DIpx-x88
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
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Well Bangladesh have their very own "Muzarabani".

We cannnot figure out why Shuvagata Hom keeps getting selected...and he is in for the 2nd Test vs England.

Test batting average of 21 and bowling average 59. f***ing ruins this game before the first ball is even bowled!
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
England deserves to lose this test for thinking of using this series as preparation for India series and taking BD lightly even after what happened in the first test. Eng spinners nowhere near BD spinners quality, Shuvagata Hom's selection notwithstanding.
ZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
Well it is a long 5 Test series with no rest time (England won't play any warmups and go straight into the Tests).

I wish Broad and Anderson had been fit for the entire series, although neither would have gotten much from the conditions. We see Stokes with his reverse swing has been the pick of the bowlers taking 6 for just 46 on Chittagong's rank turner.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
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