Zimbabwe A vs South Africa Emerging: Series Thread

Kriterion_BD wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:40 am

jaybro wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:35 am

Kriterion_BD wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:39 pm

Yeah Regis proving he's a cut above the rest.

One of the things I noticed was out of guys like Kunje, Kasuza, Musakanda, Chari...the guys all average 25-30 in first class cricket. Surely the pitches can't be that bad in the Logan Cup. Which means that at the Test level these guys are going to struggle.

Yes this is true, and that's why guys like Waller and Moor are in the side because they average above 30 .....

Well Kasuza averages 32 I think. But Waller averages above 40. Burl too averages well into the 40s. So they are definitely the best. FC averages dont always tell the truth, but its the only thing ypu can go on. But Tary does seem to know how to bat despite his avg.

Once again, the question is, in INTERNATIONALS:

1. Where do Moor, Malcolm and Burl bat?

2. Where do Chari and Musakanda bat?

NB: I know Kunje, Musakanda, Chari and Kasuza have predominantly opened in FC cricket, but in his entire career does Malcolm Waller even know what first over of a match at the crease feels like, be it Club, FC, List A, o B League? Bear in mind, he averages 23 in tests having never batted higher than number 5 and predominantly 6th.

Perhaps Musakanda's appearing as if he "knows how to bat" as you put it, is because of the minor relief of not having to face the new ball. Imagine if he batted 6. He'd look as brilliant as Regis or even more. And Regis does look a class act batting lower(6/7) in Tests after keeping wicket for 100+ overs, even though he bats in the top 3/4 in domestic FC cricket. Food for thought!

Having someone like Mawoyo opening would be a bit reassuring. Players like Chari, Kunje, Musakanda who have done the job at FC level should be looking to put up their credentials as well. The rest can fight it out in the other positions. Clearly it seems a waste opening with Chikabva. We seem to have a packed middle order but to what end? I wonder if we lack confidence in our batsman to have the likes of Waller Moor batting down at 7 or 8. The question would then be, if the top 6 are not doing a job then do they deserve their place in the team. We should take lessons from the Sri Lanka test that even if we put runs on the board its pointless if there aren't any bowlers to do the job.

tawac wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:05 am
Having someone like Mawoyo opening would be a bit reassuring. Players like Chari, Kunje, Musakanda who have done the job at FC level should be looking to put up their credentials as well. The rest can fight it out in the other positions

Didnt Burl and Moor earn their stripes at the top of the order in FC cricket?

tawac, in what positions in domestic cricket do the best performing batsmen or batting selection candidates bat for their Provinces?

We seem to have a packed middle order but to what end?

Job security!

TapsC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:34 am

Tari will probably make way for Taylor if he is back for the West Indies games. PJ has to open if he wants to stay in the team as a batsman only in my opinion. Otherwise I would drop him for Mawoyo. I'm surprised Tino isn't playing actually. Looks like they might discard him Panyangara style.Regis deserves the gloves at the moment in that format despite the mistakes he made. I doubt PJ would have caught those too.

I didn't know Panyangara has been discarded? I thought our best bowler for years now was injured and would be immediately back to lead the attack once he recovered?

tawac wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:49 pm

Well played Chikabva 100 showing why he should be in and around the national team. Not sure if opening is his best strength though. Zim A moving onto 230/5 after 56 overs. Not a bad effort at all lots of starts in the top order but now one else really hanging around.

Kriterion_BD wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:39 pm

Yeah Regis proving he's a cut above the rest.

One of the things I noticed was out of guys like Kunje, Kasuza, Musakanda, Chari...the guys all average 25-30 in first class cricket. Surely the pitches can't be that bad in the Logan Cup. Which means that at the Test level these guys are going to struggle.

Yesterda's score card showing exactly why our current national team players are a cut above the rest (maybe because they get more practice, I don't know) and how any new entrant will struggle to establish themselves in the team.

That strike rate of 75 by Regis CHkabva is quite high, likely illustrating a placid pitch and maybe a slight wekness in the SA E bowling attack. The rest of the Zim's team members should be concerned that they didn’t cash in.

Where is Prince Musvore, he would have seized this opportunity by the scuff of Chicken George’s neck.

How Victor Nyauchi bowls on this pitch today will be very important in my opinion.

Conant wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:49 am

TapsC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:34 am

Tari will probably make way for Taylor if he is back for the West Indies games. PJ has to open if he wants to stay in the team as a batsman only in my opinion. Otherwise I would drop him for Mawoyo. I'm surprised Tino isn't playing actually. Looks like they might discard him Panyangara style.Regis deserves the gloves at the moment in that format despite the mistakes he made. I doubt PJ would have caught those too.

I didn't know Panyangara has been discarded? I thought our best bowler for years now was injured and would be immediately back to lead the attack once he recovered?

I said the same thing myself a few posts back, and was reminded that apparently he’s now junk that must make way for the new generation. No basis or stats were provided.

People forget that Panyangara in the team when Vitori+Jarvis were together, and I kept banging on that ZIM would actually have won some of those matches if Panyngara was there. He's a much better seamer than both - at any age(17-35) or stage of their careers.

Panyangara is my first name on a Test bowling attack for Zimbabwe, and hewill ALWAYS get the new ball, never a chane bowler. Plus no matter how good the spinners are going, he'll bowl the 81st over regardless.

jaybro wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:18 am
Chigumbura took the new ball for goodness sakes .....

What are you implying about Elton's new-ball bowling prowess?

Opening bowling in Tests

Opening bowling in ODIs

Jaybro in pretty much every response you make to my posts, you respond to nothing they contain or speak to. I'm aware of the limited knowledge you have about ZImbabwean cricket and it's players, but you never take that into consideration about yourself when you comment. Often you do so authoritatively yet without basis. Again you make basic errors in either accusing me of not responding to or reading something when I clearly have done.

Everyone here is aware of Elton's bowling. In this insatnce you ridicule Elton's selection as an opening bowler, and I responded factually.

As you can see, those stats are not only when Elton was young and doing a lot of bowling, Also when he was older and post his injuries. It's also common knowledge that Elton is very effective using the new ball, particularly against left-handers. Butcher and Mangongo using him that way was not out of the ordinary. He often proved it was the right move.

Bear in mind that, before Zimbabwe resumed Tests, and just after that, they played a lot of high quality A/XI games against very competitive sides - as well as Tri-Series etc. Elton took the new ball and he excelled with it. There was reason behind both his selection and trust in him to bowl.

Recall Elton went to Bangladesh's domestic competitions a couple of years back and he was an MVP or thereabouts. Not just for his batting, but also his bowling, a lot of it as an opening bowler. Yes in other games or other visits he did have shockers with the ball, but my point is he was a trusted bowler.

In my opinion Elton Chigumbura is a superior Test allrounder to Mire and Nathna Waller, however those two haven't yet had their chance. However, tomorrow if one had a choice to pick an allrounder between Sean Williams and Elton Chigumbura, Chigumbura would win. They've both played about the same Test matches since 2011, and Chigumbura has a 13.53 differerence, while Williams has a 25.74 difference.

Factually and statistically, no one here can prove why Elton, like Vusi, was even dropped to begin with - format by format. Since 2011, I challenge anyone to try an dprove that, since you say I doctor stats. Go for it.

Jemisi wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:23 pm
Saying Chigs is superior to Waller and Mire isn't saying much.

But that's the problem here on ZCF. Statements carry more weight than stats.

When people delve into stats only then do they realise just how much they severely underrated a player.

I said it in my last "reincarnation" and as I've said the worst period in Zimbabwe cricekt actually occured when these so-called useless players were sidelined for the so-called superior ones. It was dreadful!

No one will dare admit that, but it's a fact that's left an indelible mark in the history of Zimbabwe cricket.

Jemisi wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:57 pm

We can all 'delve'.

Chigs has some major flaws. Very low hundred ratio both at domestic and international levels.1 per 52.2 innings & 1 per 132.5 innings respectively.

Recent form is terrible. This year he has 132 runs @ 14.67. Domestically he is averaging below 15 this year from 10 innings.

He hasn't bowled. He has 450 career wickets. Same number as last year. He hardly bowled himself as captain. He has no confidence.

Elton carried hopes in dark days. At least someone in the team might whack a few, but that guy hasn't been around since you were Hhm.

Can he have a turnaround? Maybe. He is only 31.

Should the bloke who has smashed a thousand List A runs in the last year be ahead of him as a lower order hitter?

Yes.

Quite true Elty has just been terrible this season and is badly out of form. He couldn't even crack the A team. But if he makes that right and gets in a few good knocks surely he could have a look in. That said, Raza had a horrible domestic season and shouldn't have been anywhere near the national team based on that performance. But he came good on tour and scored more than just a few. What do i know?